klipsch vs. the "audiophiles"

[Mallette]

Just got back from Ron's (lonelobo) new house down the street. Loaded some of his heavy stuff in the morning, then took a break and set up Heresy's, and old Marantz 2230 reciever, a 15.00 garage sale Pioneer CD player, a 20.00 Onkyo TT with Stanton 681 cartridge, and a DynaQuad hooked to two Frazier Super Midgets in the rear. Listened to some of my location CD's (Spankers and chamber musice), and the Mobile Fidelity "Waiting for Columbus" Little Feat album.

Total system cost, about 350.00.

Sound: Priceless.

Dave

[Khorn]

Re: Klipsch and amplification.

I have used all types of pre and amplification to drive my Klipschorns ranging from all tube SETs with tube preamps to high powered SS with SS preamplification and combinations thereof. Each has offered some advantages but also disadvantages.

At present I am using a SS pre-amp into a SS 'pure class 'A' design 60wpc amplifier that is giving me the best combination that I have yet obtained. None of the SS "hardness & glare" that I have previuosly experienced with some SS designs. I am geting good solid low frequency reproduction with great timbre and with quick transient response. The mids and highs are clean smooth and detailed.

I believe that it depends on how well the equipment is designed and implemented that counts. I previously wouldn't have thought that SS and Klipschorns could be such a good match.

One thing, Klipschorns certainly prove out the computer term: Garbage In, Garbage Out. They reflect more than any other speaker that I am aware of exactly what is fed into them: Bad Sound In, Bad Sound Out conversely Good Sound In, Good Sound Out. It's a two edged sword so to speak. Many speaker designs may provide a more all round pleasant experience by being "voiced" to make input signals both good and bad sound acceptable but, even though they might not sound as bad as a Klipschorn with a POOR input, they will never sound as GREAT as a Klipschorn does with a GOOD input.The above is even magnified more greatly by the quality of your front end.

All I can say is that the above has been my personal experience anyway.

[greg928gts]

This is a great topic. I run into this all the time, guys who are listening to expensive 2-way speakers with 8" woofers and a soft-dome tweeter, and exclaiming how wonderful they are. I just don't get it. I don't know what they're hearing, but to me, any speaker that small is just faking it. I've sat in front of a lot of so called audiophile speakers and been bored to death (included most of Klipsch's offerings over the last 10 years, sorry).

I still remember the first time I heard Klipsch speakers, it was a very moving experience. I was 15 years old, there were these big black speakers hanging in the corners of the dealership, and big blue meters on the shelf. People stopped on the sidewalk to stare through the windows at what was going on inside. Klipsch Heritage are an experience. They are involving. They have a physical impact on the listener. Young children run away. My Khorns make me smile and shake my head in amazement every time I listen to them. Klipsch Heritage enthusiasts have the power that comes from knowing the real difference between their speakers and those so called audiophile speakers that have this years "in" sound.

Greg

[Mallette]

Love your post, but:

>Young children run away.

Both my 2 and my 5 year old frolick at 100db whether it is a pipe organ, jazz, or RocknRoll. I think of them as distortion filters. I suspect my daughter shares the ability I had as a child of hearing well into the ultrasonics, so if it sux she'd know.

Dave

[TheEAR]

JG,

Why is Klipsch dismissed in favor of ubber expensive speakers.

First Klipsch does not have the looks or exotic finishes many High-End speakers have,Klipsch speakers look rather ordinary.Klipsch does not scream LOOK I AM VERY EXPENSIVE.This will not impress the yuppy I AM RICH crowd.

Second all larger Klipsch speakers(from RF7's up to the K-Horns)do not need much power,a hugh quality tube amp will give the most musical results.This is NOT good for those who must sell high power MEAG solid state amps.

These two factors combined do not promote the rich and famous status.

Me I have a full set of Klipsch speakers and use ATI(2505 and 1505) power amps with them,the sound is not as musical as with tubes but the dynamics are pretty much second to none.WIth larger Klipsch you get lifelike dynamic impact,and full scale performance.Plus as each Klipsch owner knows you do not need to be scared to damage your Klipsch,your hearing will be damaged well before your Klipsch give in.

I also like my Dynaudio Contour series speakers,these are the opposite of Klipsch.You NEED a very high power amp(tube or solid state)solid state is ideal(due to high cost of very powerful quality tube amps).The sound can be described as laid back(compared to Klipsch)and what is irritating on with Klipsch is much less with Dynes.Soft dome tweeters are much softer on ears.

Upper end Klipsch do not soften up agressive or bad quality recordings,the spit it like it is.

Klipsch are also ideal for HT,due to the very dynamic nature,and with only 100W RMS PC amp you can reproduce live concerts if you so desire.Doing this with Dynaudio would require a BIG solid state as you need to spend at least 3K and up on the amp(Sunfire Signature stereo amp does well here).

If you have good money to put at least get RF7's or go all the way and get the Klipsch Horn.You will need free corners to get the most,as RF7's do not need to be placed too close to walls to perform well.

[Another Woman]

"We wouldn't know about most things if it weren't for the magazines."

Which magazines would you recommend? I'm brand new to this world and haven't read any. I'm having fun and eager to learn more.

Tamara

[lemonman]

Are you really a female?

Try Stereophile, Home Theater Magazine, and The Absolute Sound.

Stereophile is sometimes a riot to read, all these glowing reviews of ridicously expensive gear. And reading these 'reviewers' describe how they hear monstrous differences between interconnects, power cords, even accessories like mana stands! I tell you these people need therapy

[leok]

Stereophile and The Absolute Sound. Same reasons. I do think that the writers are aware of various conflicts of interest (good reviews - advertising $ - profit - value - high quality sound - etc) and a lot of valuable information is written between the lines, or at least mentioned only indirectly. But the information is there and the reading is fun.

leok

[jt1stcav]

I agree with the above statements as well. And I don't care what the "audiophools" think about Klipsch not being high-end enough for them, and I applaud PWK's reaction to such high-brow snobs! Klipsch may not get any attention in Stereophile or The Absolute Sound, but it's all moot seeing the loyal fan base these horn speakers have had for over 50 years. And if my ears had mouths, they'd surely be smilin' from ear to ear!

[Another Woman]

Yep, I really AM a woman. Can you believe it? AND, I have 4 Klipsch speakers that I've had for 10 years and I have 2 more Klipsch speakers on the way. So do I qualify for this fan club? I hope so, cause you guys are fun.

So it sounds like Stereophile and The Absolute Sound are getting the most votes. How do I find them?

[dougdrake]

Sensible Sound and Sound and Vision are 2 more you might take a look at when you're browsing the mag rack at Borders or wherever. SS is aimed at the "budget audiophile," so they tend not to be so over-the-top as Stereophool et al. S&V, while having a lot of puff pieces (written sometimes, I believe, by the PR departments of the manufacturer), has a lot of info that may be more in line with the budgets of most of the folks here.

However, it's good to look at the high-end mags so you know what else is out there. For example, I read in one of them about a DVD-A/SACD player from Esoteric (I believe) that upsampled Redbook (regular) CDs to something like 1.5mhz, a far cry from the 44khz they were recorded at.

[jt1stcav]

Cool, another lady Klipsch owner...I wish all the women I knew had an affection for Klipsch such as you. All the ladies I knew thought they were too big and unsightly, or just plain heinous!

To subscribe to TAS, visit:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/

To subscribe to Stereophile, visit:

http://www.stereophile.com/

[Daddy Dee]

My wife loves Klipsch! Just as one would expect from a woman with such obviously good taste (as to want to marry me!)

[Deang]

You have deluded yourself. She obviously married you for your gear.

[bkrop]

Sound and Vision gave great reviews early this year to both a Klipsch RF-7 system and to a Bose system.

Give me a break!

Bose will not let them post any specs!

[greg928gts]

Sound and Vision is just doing what they have to in order to keep the advertising dollars rolling in.

Bose never would publish specs. How do you publish the highest distortion specs in the industry, sharp frequency roll off below 100 hz. and still claim to provide better sound through research?

I have a t-shirt that I used to wear 25 years ago that says "I Own Klipsch" on the front, and "Beware of Bose, Distortion Kills" on the back. I got kicked out of my local Bose dealership so many times it was a riot.

Greg

[kjohnsonhp]

I don't think the real difference between audiophiles and Klipsch has been addressed. I own Klipsch Heritage, tubes, vinyl, etc. and have been listening to Cornwalls since 1983 with little exposure to Audiophile gear but recently I've been chatting with the "other side" and here are my observations:

1. Audiophiles like neutral speakers (those w/flat frequency response curves). Klipch are pereived to color the sound which I've read folks on this board articulate as not neccessarily a bad thing. Others like to EQ with other items in the system...like tone controls.

2. Audiophiles like a "smooth" sound and find the Klipsch mids and highs to be harsh...there's an edge to the sound...(hard to describe but they don't seem to like the "horn" sound. Avantgarde, however, seem to have some success at sound less "horney" and getting audiophile attention.

3. Audiophiles like transparancy and imaging...the sound is not percieved to be coming from the speakers and there is a 3d image of sound. With Klipsch I hear a good center image with debth but I wouldn't say they are as transparant as say the $10k/pr mbl 300e's I heard last week or even the $2500/pr Onix Ref 2's or Monitor Audio Gold GR60's I've heard recently.

I think Klipsch provides a big, live sound that can pound the walls at a great price. Klipsch Ref are appealing to some, but for others the sound just isn't pleasant so the value is lost. For them the KEF, Rocket, Paradigm, Axiom, Ascend, Polk, etc. brands at the same price as Klipsch Ref are the options.

Used monster heritage speakers are a great value but have other issues (form factor, WAF, center, size, used, etc.).

Klipsch have great value--especially Heritage--but if you don't like the sound then they are very quickly eliminated from a buyers shopping list. I've read a lot of newbies audition new Klipch and the perceptions are mixed as you would expect. I must say Klipch seems to generate a stronger pro or con opinion than other brands.

My perception is that the modern Klipch is a marketing machine with huge print advertising...one of the largest from what I've been seeing...maybe not in the highend mags like TAS or Stereophile but they recently did a multipage spread in S&V. Even in these lower price oriented and often HT focused mags the Klipsch horn gets mixed reviews. About a year ago I read a review of the RF7 and it was typical Klipsch and horn bashing despite the full page ads.

For those that don't like Klipsch there are brands with value short of $20K. Here are some:

* VMPS rm40 -- competes with the $20k crowd at under $5k/pr

* Onix Strata (fall release) -- prettier and could be better than rm40 at $5k

* GR Research Alpha -- competes with the ribbons above w/in-line array

* Legacy Audio Focus 20/20

* even horns from Avantgarde

* Magnepan

* ML Odyessy and Descent sub (adding the sub makes this pretty expensive)

In traditional designed at lower price points I like:

* KEF xQ5 which is similar to their more expensive Ref203 (available discounted and notably less than KEF REF.

* Onix Ref2 $2.5k ($4k in 5 piece package)

* Paradigm's new Signature and Studio Ref 100's v3

* Totem Hawk

The B&W N804, MA GR60's, etc. are nice but around $4k/pr. I like speakers in this class on the used market at half price. The bigger B&W and KEF really shine but they are in ~$20k range we want to avoid.

In monitors I like:

* mbl's

* Onix Ref1

* Joseph Audio

* Sonus Faber Concerto's used

* Proac Tablette

There's probably heeps of other speakers but these have caught my eyes and ears. I like DefTech for movies but not for music.

One of my recent favorite systems was mbl 300e's with an mbl integrated ss amp. The source was a CD w/PT external DAC and interpoliation engine. This system had the transparancy, imaging, deep bass, and big live sound I love. It also had the price of a new car...about $15k after discounts.

So in the end my setup seems to have a good bang for the buck. If you like Klipsch then the value is hard to beat!

[J M O N]

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On 8/3/2003 2:23:04 AM Another Woman wrote:

Which magazines would you recommend? I'm brand new to this world and haven't read any. I'm having fun and eager to learn more.

----------------

Probably the best, no-nonsense magazine out there was Listener magazine. Unfortunately, they went out of business about a year ago. Stereophile and TAS are two "high-end" magazines, but I don't care for them much as they seem to think that the more something costs, the better it is. You don't have to spend a lot to put together an outstanding system, especially if you're willing to buy used. I used to subscribe to Stereophile, but don't anymore.

[Mallette]

O, Lord, I miss Listener. I'd have sold them on the street corner if I'd know they were in trouble...

Dave

[jt1stcav]

Same here. Listener had great editorials from Art Dudley, and the late Harvey "Gizmo" Rosenberg (the 300B guru) kept us all laughing. A truely great read.