jdm56 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Please bear with me a minute while I vent: I just ripped Luther's newest CD, "Dance With My Father", to my hard drive in order to burn a copy for my wife to keep in the minivan. OK, all's well till I hit ye olde "burn" icon, then POOF! - FATAL OPERATION ERROR! For cryin' out loud, why can't they just make the bloomin' things so they won't copy? Why cause your whole program to shutdown? I'd think they could implement a less malicious form of copy protection. And why is there no label on the CD anywhere stating that it is copy protected? This is really lame. I detest these greedy record companies! Who am I harming by burning a copy for my own personal use, anyway? Do they seriously think I'm gonna buy multiple copies of every good CD, just for my convenience? Their copy protection does nothing to stop real criminals, anyway. All it does is perturb and alienate their own best customers. "The love of money is the root of all evil." ...ain't it the truth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Are you sure that it was a copy protected CD that caused the crash and not just the software having a glitch? Have you been able to copy other CDs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 this probably isn't the smartest thing to be posting with all the crack down stuff goin on in the music industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 You can rip if it is for yourself only and not being shared, so that is legal. What program are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Good Day: Having webtv, no computer burner is nice. BUT, there is an added tax/royalty added to blank CDS and to standard CDs. Now, I would like to know how the companies distribute that amount, how they determine what artist receives what amount. For a while, Congress in their infinite proctologist self examination wisdom, was considering the idea that a chip would be installed so that the recoreded CD you buy would ONLY play on the first player used. At least Congress found the sense to realize you may either choose, or have to replace that CD player and shot that down. Yes, the companies are trying to make it impossible to make any copy of a CD. Similar to when they wanted to add a fee to cassettes because people were making copies and using the in their vehicle. The Companies are just as bad as the mugger on the street except they do it on the premise that they are protecting the Artist. That flie as well as the Artist "protection" contracts of the 1950s and the fake groups because the Company or Manager owns the rights to the group name. As one who has seen the sleaze in the music/recording industry. I feel that they will stop at nothing to make money. I only wish the Artists recording today would bring their Attorneys in and demand an accounting of the extra fees and how or if any have ever been distributed. All of these new protection features were supposed to bring the cost of a pre-recorded CD to the consumer DOWN. I have not seen that. If their Attorneys wish to shut the truth up - so be it. The music business is IMHO as or more corrupt than in the 1950s and 1960s. One of the reasons salesa are going down is not related to copies. It is related to the number of groups that are recording anything some people want to hear. It used to be one (1) note changed every sixteen (16) bars to get a new copyright. Now it's boy toy and groups whose singers can be interchanged with no change in sound. Some of today's music is very good, I am not getting down on that, so keep that debate away. Sorry about the rant, but I've seen too much to not think a Fatal Mistake could be inserted. Win dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 ---------------- On 8/12/2003 7:58:25 AM dodger wrote: Some of today's music is very good, I am not getting down on that, so keep that debate away. ---------------- Ohhhhh.... I will chime in and tell it like it is. Reason record sales are down these days is because the market is saturated with a bunch of crap bands. There are *VERY FEW* good groups/artists out these days. So much so that I buy maybe 2 CDs a year now. Just not much out there I feel as though I want to spend $16.00+ dollars on. Used to be that you could buy a CD/Tape/Record and count on a majority of the recording being good and you felt as though you would get your money's worth.... Now for me... Na, most of it is crapola. Wake up Hollywood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Don't even get me started on this. What people describe as "fair use" is actually not very legal right now, which is horribly unfortunate. Do I have a right to free music? No. Do I have a right to bootlegged movies? No. Do I have a right to listen to a recording on different media? You bet. Do I have a right to watch a DVD that I paid for on my LINUX machine? You bet. Will MPAA and RIAA outlaw all forms of time-shifting and phase-shifting in order to try to squeeze more blood out of the stone? They are doing a damn fine job of it. Whover said that sales are down because Hollywood and the recording industry are saturating us with Epicly Craptacular films and movies had it right. Grrrrr, I could go on for hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 James- Check if on the CD you see the "Compact Disk" logo. The Compact Disk standard (aka Redbook standard) doesn't allow for copy protection. Therefore, if a disk is copy protected it SHOULD NOT display the Compact Disk logo, thus far, most manufactures have abided by this. IMHO, if you do find a copy protected CD with the logo, I would submit a formal complaint to the manufacture of the disk and your states Attorney General, since displaying this logo would constitute blatant false advertisement. Please let us know...thanks!!! -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Are you able the listen to it on you PC? If you can, m00n may be right about a computer bug. My understanding has been that all the copy-protected disks will not play at all on a PC... and this has been true for the ones I have purchased. Some won't play in my car either (fussy deck I guess). If it plays, you should be able to make a "CD-copy"... though you may not be able to "rip" it. By the way, Dave is right... all the protected "music disks" I have purchased in the past don't have the "CD" logo on them, nor do they mention that they are CDs. I have purchased one which had a small pale sticker which actually warned that it was copy protected. Very hard to see before hand. I'd recommend large warnings similar to those which promote the course language on an album. (that is what those stickers are for, right? ) Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted August 14, 2003 Author Share Posted August 14, 2003 ---------------- On 8/12/2003 1:43:17 AM m00n wrote: Are you sure that it was a copy protected CD that caused the crash and not just the software having a glitch? Have you been able to copy other CDs? ---------------- Moon, I've copied other CD's with no problem, but I've also had the same thing happen once before. I believe that was with a Casey Chambers CD. Same result: a "fatal" error message resulting in the program, TDK's "Ahead Nero", shutting down. Making multiple attempts to burn the CD to a blank just resulted in multiple errors and shut-downs. All my audiophool life I've copied my own purchased music for my own use or to give to others. Starting with taping LP's to 8-track, then cassette. Now I tape CD's to DAT, or burn them to CD-R's. But it appears that home-taping is going to be "erased". All because of the greed of the people who "own" the music. Now, I do not advocate stealing music, and I respect the rights of copyright holders, BUT there is this principle known as "fair use", which states that a person who buys copyrighted music has the RIGHT to copy it for his own use. True, you might say that giving home-copies away is a violation of the fair-use policy, which strictly speaking, may be true. But, I can state without doubt, that the vast majority of the copyrighted music I have given away, did not result in lost sales to the record companies, because for various reasons, those people would NEVER have bought that music anyway! In reality the only impact it could have had would have been to INCREASE sales, by exposing music to people who otherwise would not have heard it. To tell the truth, I don't copy music much nowadays anyway. Since we have CD players in both vehicles, the only motivation there is just to avoid carting around valuable CD's in a car. I'd much rather have a cheap CD-R copy get melted, cracked, stepped on, pilfered, etc. BUT, it just galls my sense of fairness, that record company executives are so danged greedy, short-sighted and corrupt. Sure, there is no law saying they can't copy-protect music, or sue file sharers. But why can't they see they are just slowly cooking the goose that lays the golden eggs. Their problems (decling sales) are more directly related to the aging of the baby-boomers, the competition from DVD and game software, and their own poor business practices, such as has been mentioned, the lack of desirable music, and the over-pricing of it. In an era of $15-20 DVD's, CD's priced at $16-19 just doesn't seem like much of a value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted August 14, 2003 Author Share Posted August 14, 2003 ---------------- On 8/13/2003 11:54:15 PM formica wrote: Are you able the listen to it on you PC? Rob ---------------- Rob, Yes, I can rip it to the hard-drive and listen to it on the computer (although I don't know why I'd want to - crappy computer sound ) I just can't burn a copy to CD-R. I have read of certain types of music protection that this behaviour is consistent with. It will allow transfer to a cda file, but will not allow you to make a direct bit-for-bit copy of it. It MIGHT allow me to make an mp3 copy. I haven't tried that yet. I don't know if the disc is an "official" red-book CD; the only compact disc / digital audio logo I can find on it is the one molded into one corner of the jewel box. Have I got a case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 ---------------- On 8/14/2003 12:25:09 AM James D McCall wrote: Their problems (decling sales) are more directly related to the aging of the baby-boomers, the competition from DVD and game software, and their own poor business practices, such as has been mentioned, the lack of desirable music, and the over-pricing of it. In an era of $15-20 DVD's, CD's priced at $16-19 just doesn't seem like much of a value. ---------------- I couldn't agree more, esp the competition for the consumers entertainment $ from DVD's and the feeling of value. As for burning it... I would have thought that if you can play it, you should be able to bit-copy it. If the disk includes a script to prevent it, you could try turning off "auto-detect CD" in you PC's windows configuration... so the disk won't play nor run when it is inserted. Just a guess... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 My suggestion to to take the copy-protected CD back to the store where it was purchased and demand your money back! Especially if it has no external markings stating that it's copy-protected. If enough people refuse to buy them and keep returning the P.O.S's to the retailers eventually the artists and record companies should back off. If an artist or record company wants to utilize copy protection - let 'em starve! The following site has a list of CD's with known problems: http://www.fatchucks.com/z3.cd.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted August 14, 2003 Author Share Posted August 14, 2003 ---------------- On 8/14/2003 11:44:00 AM Curmudgeon wrote: My suggestion to to take the copy-protected CD back to the store where it was purchased and demand your money back! Especially if it has no external markings stating that it's copy-protected. If enough people refuse to buy them and keep returning the P.O.S's to the retailers eventually the artists and record companies should back off. If an artist or record company wants to utilize copy protection - let 'em starve! The following site has a list of CD's with known problems: http://www.fatchucks.com/z3.cd.html ---------------- Unfortunately, I bought the CD from Circuit City.com, so returning it would be a hassle. I do think I'll report it to the state attourney general's office, fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 Curmudgeon- Great link...thanks. Gil- Hey, if its listed on the site that Curmudgeon listed, I would write a letter to both Circuit City HQs and Attourney general's office (both certified Mail) stating the following items. Perhaps a few of the fellow inmates could chime in here so we get a good letter and we could use it if we ever get burned!!! 1. Any digital media which displays the "Compact Disk" logo is advertising that their product follows the specifications stated to in the "red-book" (bet to get a copy of the standards so you can quote paragraphs and sources) and said digital media is able to be played in any player, including computer disk players, that conformes to the "Compact Disk" standard and displays the "Compact Disk" logo. 2. Any copy protection schemes that are written onto the CD, in any form, bit errors and other methods (we need to learn what the common techniques are) are NOT part of the red-book standard and therfore shouldn't be included on any digital media which displays the "compact Disk" logo on any part of the media and/or package. 3. Finally, the following product(s) were/are being sold by Company XXX (location, etc) which are deciving the consumers by advertising that said product complies to a known standard, but in actuality doesn't comply to said standard. Where are the lawyers when we need/want them??? hehehe -Dave PS: I bet someone from the AudioAsylum has written something, perhaps a search there will turn something up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foldedhorn Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 It is too bad that it did not blow your computer up. Your infringing on copyrights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 ---------------- On 8/15/2003 9:34:37 PM foldedhorn wrote: It is too bad that it did not blow your computer up. Your infringing on copyrights. ---------------- Ahhh, there is this thing called "Fair Use". You are allowed under fair use to make copies for personal use, such as for playing in the car (and after spending $35 to get Stratovarious's first CD, Fright Night, imported from Japan (was never released in the USA), you better believe I made a copy for use in the car!). You are also allowed to transfer to another format, such as cassette tape and even MP3s for on the computer. I like the idea of being able to have a large catalog of music available on my PC that I can stream to my stereo via an AudioTron device, not to mention it makes searching for music much easier. Also, I can take a single CD-R containing a good 10 albums to work to listen to some music there. All of that is legal under fair use. However, fair use does not give you the right to distribute the music over P2P networks. Also, contrary to belief, you are really not supposed to give it away to a couple of your friends either, but to be honost, I really don't see any real harm being done with the casual copying that goes one between friends. If anything, it probably helps more than it hurts by exposing more music to more people who would not otherwise have bothered, thus it is more likely people will buy more CDs than less. I have certainly been able to explore much more music that I otherwise would have, and in fact, have bougbht more CDs, since buying the CD was better to me than hasseling with searching for and downloading off the P2P networks, despite the high-speed access I have to the internet, not to mention the much better quality of the recordings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthfreek Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 I've always felt that the "there just isn't any good music/bands out there" excuse is a total cop-out. It's true that nearly everything on MTV is embarrassing but there ARE other outlets for new music. Come on moon..2 CDs a year???!!! Are you being serious? If so, let me know so I can shoot you over a list of a TON of great CDs/bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 ---------------- On 8/15/2003 9:34:37 PM foldedhorn wrote: It is too bad that it did not blow your computer up. Your infringing on copyrights. ---------------- Wow! what a statement from the person who said "GOD BLESS CORPERATE GREED" 2-17 03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foldedhorn Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 However, fair use does not give you the right to distribute the music over P2P networks. Also, contrary to belief, you are really not supposed to give it away to a couple of your friends either, but to be honest, I really don't see any real harm being done with the casual copying that goes one between friends. You should be on Bush's why we havent found any weapons of mass distruction team. What a spin you put on things. Oh ...well.... No, we havent even found a spent shell casing in the desert but what is 250 dead soldiers among casual friends?? As I said you are infringing on copyrighted material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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