Belles to Cornwalls - Will I Be Disappointed?

[gullahisland]

The Cornwalls that I'm considering are definitely Walnut. I asked the seller for the serial numbers, but I guess the labels on the back are sunbleached and deteriorating. He couldn't make out the number completely (although I don't think he tried all that hard), but CWL was definitely in the mix.

Based on my limited knowledge of the Klipsch serial #s, the C represents Cornwall, W = Walnut and L = Lacquer...correct?

He said they're in nice condition for their age, but I think that I would probably sand them down and give them a BLO job...you know what I mean!

[avman]

can i get a little help w/this ? PLEASE!?

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On 4/7/2004 11:24:39 AM avman wrote:

since so many have responded to this topic, i thought i could 'pop-in' with a ?

i picked up a pair of '82 cornwalls a few months ago,but haven't had alot of time w/them as i have my legend theater room to listen to and the corns were in the living room which we have been painting/renovating.

the 'problem' i am having w/them is very LITTLE bass.

naturally i checked my speaker wire polarity.also both woofers are working.

any suggestions as to where to go from here?

what is the procedure to make sure they are in-phase?

could it be the KLF-30's with rsw-15 have got me 'bass-spoiled'?

thanks,

avman.

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[pierceb]

Avman, (this could probably be discussed in another thread, I don't mean to hijack this thread)

I have had RF-7's for about 3 years, and recently acquired a set of corns. My first reaction was the same as yours, lack of bass. I have since started listening to the corns way more that the 7's, and now appreciate the bass from the corns. I think the bass sounds more balanced with the mids and highs in the corns than the 7's. When I now listen to the 7's, I think the bass sounds a bit overwhelming (but much tighter). This might be due to lack of midrange in the 7's (??), but more likely due to room placement and upstream electronics. I haven't sat down to really put my finger on it (no time). I've never heard KLF-30's before, so I don't know if they have more midrange presence than the 7's.

Chances are that you are probably a bit bass spoiled, especially when throwing a RSW15 in the mix. Maybe try listening to the corns exclusively for a month or so, maybe you opinion will change as well.

-PB

[garymd]

Avman,

I can't believe your corns are bass shy! Have you hooked them up in place of your 30s to see how they compare in the same room/system? The room could have a lot to do with it. My basement has very bad acoustics and the corns didn't sound nearly as deep when they were down there.

Swap the + and - to see if the polarity is OK. That's usually not the culprit though.

BTW - Corns sometimes get a bad rap because they're not totally horn-loaded. If you've never heard them, give them a try. You may love them like many of us do. Also, if you decide to refinish them, make sure to completely sand away the laquer finish before using BLO. They don't mix well. If they're in decent shape, try Murphy's woodsoap first. You may be suprised at the results.

[avman]

thanks guys-

i don't want to hijack either, it's just that with so many quality responses,i wanted to get some myself.

thanks again.

avman.

[HornEd]

Hmm, time does go by even whether you are not having fun or not! Dan, I didn't know you were interested in Belles, I have a nice oak pair in storage in San Francisco that I am about to bring to my Santa Cruz Mountain retreat. I had hoped that the fellow in Tracy would trade me for your Belles as you indicated he would... but he just hasn't responded to my email requests. Seems Jorjen had a similar problem. If you have any ideas on how to break the log jam... I'd like another set of Khorns. -HornEd

[dbflash]

Dan,

All great advice.

I think you can now see why you are going to have to listen to what ever speakers you are thinking about buying.

I had both Cornwalls and Lascalas. I just sold the LS last week. I like the the Cornwall sound better. But as you can see from all the responses you have had everyone likes different things about each speaker.

If you like the Belles wait for a pair. You will find a pair.

I can tell you what it is like to sky dive, but until you jump out of the plane it is just the way I feel about it.

The price of those Corns is very good. You could buy them and listen for awhile and if you don't like them you can get your money back.

Good luck. We have all been where you are now.

Danny

[Johnny TN]

Here you go.. walnut stained + full grill.

[IndyKlipschFan]

Johnny.. Wow great job...Those just might be passable on the WAF too..LOL

[Johnny TN]

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On 4/7/2004 6:13:33 PM IndyKlipschFan wrote:

Johnny.. Wow great job...Those just might be passable on the WAF too..LOL

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as you can see the blue tape in the background I'm doing a little repainting of the house. This room is very manly I guess..kind of a light grey in color and big hertiage speakers..Heresy's are my rear surrounds on stands. The rest of the house we call "froo-froo" (Sp?) kinda colorful and more fem.

[jt1stcav]

Nice La Scalas, JohnnyTN.

I can tell you from my experience that Cornwalls are not bass-shy. The KLF-30s may have more punch, but the Cornwalls are no slouch in the bass department! Room placement and treatment play a big part in their overall sound, and the lack of bass you're experiencing may have something to do with your room, I dunno.

Someday soon I'll be getting my BEZ 300B SET amp, and it'll be quite interesting to see (and hear) how this 8 WPC stereo amp sounds through my Cornwalls...the BEZ 6SN7 preamp I already have makes a world of difference, so replacing my Mac SS amp with the 300B should definately sound fantastic...I hope!

Good luck with either the Cornwalls or La Scalas. Either way you should be pleased!

[Audible Nectar]

Do what I did - get BOTH

They are certainly different speakers, particularly on the low end. The Belles are tighter/faster, but do not go as low. They also tend to be a bit more "picky" getting them to sound good in the room - but that could be as much a product of the size of the Belles, as opposed to the speaker itself.

If you want "closest to Khorn" sound, get the Belles.

The Corns are much more "forgiving" or "flexible" in placement, it seems - it is easier getting them to sound good in the room. For that reason, I employ my Cornwalls in the theater - I have had no difficulty getting the six speakers placed appropriately - and that's in a 16x20 foot room.

Since you can get the Corns for a great price, GET THEM and find out for yourself. As DaddyDee says, "It's a no brainer". You'll certainly enjoy the audition if you are of Heritage blood, and if you decide you want the Belles, you can, of course, sell the Cornwalls easily.

They both share one thing in common - feed 'em good electronics, and they will reward you dearly

Oh, and your wife likes Heritage klipsch??? Give her a kiss, cuz she's sure a keeper

Nice LaScala pics, BTW!

[Klipschguy]

Cornwalls vs. Belles. HHHmmm. I've had EXTENSIVE experience with La Scalas and Cornwalls (never heard Belles). I got my best friend to buy a pair of La Scalas about 12 years ago - I hear them all the time - and love them, but I decided on the Cornwalls for myself. I personally prefer the Cornwalls for my listening tastes (funny, now, so does he - but he still ain't complaining). IMHO, Cornwalls are a tonally better balanced speaker. For quiet to moderately loud music the Cornwalls sound (to MY ears) significantly better than the La Scalas. However, when it comes to really cranking it up, the La Scalas got it all over the Cornwalls. The Cornwalls will begin to compress above about 105dB. The La Scala will not compress until they get much louder and make for a concert force performance that the Cornwalls cannot match. On the other hand, my Cornwalls sound deep, full, crisp and balanced with no bass equalization added - even at low levels (with test tones and a meter, I am registering useful response to 25HZ). The La Scalas have almost no bass unless it is added (like a loudness button). BTW, this is just my honest opinion, everybody has his own preference, so give me a break if you disagree. I know some prefer La Scalas, others like Cornwalls. There is no sin in liking one over the other. Just make sure you get the ones YOU PERSONALLY prefer. Since you are used to Belles you may prefer them. They are certainly a very beautiful speaker.

Avman,

To test the phase, put your Cornwalls face to face 6 inches apart. Play some bass heavy music - NO EQ. Reverse the leads. One lead orientation will have a lot of bass, the other will have nil. Choose the bass heavy orientation. To get balanced bass response start with the Cornwalls toed in, deep into the corners. This set up will usually produce an overall bass heavy sound with Cornwalls. To balance the sound move them incrementally out of the corners, both away from the wall (for better imaging) and towards each other until the the bass is balanced using music/song with good bass content (my personal favorite is "The Blues Man" by Alan Jackson - the bass guitar will rattle your fillings loose - great tune). Don't expect chest pounding bass if it ain't in the recording - like on some of my tired old vinyl. (Also, my Cornwalls seem to like high current, high damping amps - tube guys, yeah, they sound good, too, mine are just collecting a little dust right now).

Man I love Heritage Klipsch.

Warm regards,

Andy

[rtaylor]

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On 4/7/2004 1:55:24 PM avman wrote:

can i get a little help w/this ? PLEASE!?

----------------

On 4/7/2004 11:24:39 AM avman wrote:

since so many have responded to this topic, i thought i could 'pop-in' with a ?

i picked up a pair of '82 cornwalls a few months ago,but haven't had alot of time w/them as i have my legend theater room to listen to and the corns were in the living room which we have been painting/renovating.

the 'problem' i am having w/them is very LITTLE bass.

naturally i checked my speaker wire polarity.also both woofers are working.

any suggestions as to where to go from here?

what is the procedure to make sure they are in-phase?

could it be the KLF-30's with rsw-15 have got me 'bass-spoiled'?

thanks,

avman.

----------------

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Take a look inside and make sure the all three speakers and crossovers are hooked up correctly. I bought a pair of lascala's off ebay and they never quite sounded right. When replacing crossovers I found that one midrange horn was out of phase at the driver. Good God Man, HOO!

[jorjen]

Dan,

I think you may want to wait just a bit to see and hear my Corns when they are finished. I almost have the restoration complete and they are beautiful. And with the ALK's I made using the AudioCap Thetas, your opening question just may answer itself in favor of the Cornwalls. You and I already know they will not be in the $500-$600 range, but maybe we can work something out. Remember, it only takes you about 35-40 minutes to get to my house for a look and a listen. Just a thought.

[Allan Songer]

I like Cornwalls.

[maxg]

And just to be different...

If you want the Horn sound but without the risks of having boomy bass the Heresy might be a good interim solution. Horn loaded tweeter and mid with a 12 inch woofer in a sealed unit.

I have never heard of anyone complain of boomy bass from a heresy, inadequate bass - yes, but boomy, no.

And if you want to extend the bass response whilst still avoiding boomy bass, adding a REL Strata 3 sub works a treat. Properly set up you end up with a Heresy that extends down to 20 Hz with no boom.

You can also pick them up relatively cheaply in the US.

[dubai2000]

Max,

good point, only I'd go for any SVS sub...the PB2-ISD blew away my REL Stadium II by a big margin .

Wolfram

[maxg]

Interesting you shuold say that Wolfram, I too was totally unimpressed with the Stadium, but the Strata is a different kettle of fish altogether.

I think it is something of a misnomer to call the Strata a sub-woofer, because it doesnt do the typical sub thing. In other words, whilst it does produce usable bass down to relatively low levels (20 Hz or maybe a touch less) it does not boom and it does not make itself noticed, except when it is switched off.

Many people refer to the Strata as one of the most, if not the most, musical subs in the world. I tend to agree from my limited experience of other subs. I would not choose it for special effects in movies, but if you merely want to extend the bass response of your music system in a way that makes it seem all the bass is coming out of your mains, then this is THE sub.

I think this is the main reason why its recommended connection (straight from the speaker outputs of the amps) and its cross-over points are so wildly different in use from other subs.

Normally when using a sub you set the cross over on your receiver to about 80 Hz and set the mains to small. With a Rel you bypass such settings (even if you have them) and set the cross-over point to around the lowest capability of your mains. For me, with the Heresies and my KT88 monoblocks tht point was 43Hz roll off leading to about 50 Hz cross-over - tying in nicely with the bottom end of the Heresy.

Further, remember that this sub uses a mere 10 inch woofer and is, in itself, a sealed unit. This means it has the speed to keep up with the Heresy. In fact the speed is probably faster than the woofer of the Heresy - meaning that I found the best placement to be slightly further away from the listening position than the mains.

Of course - YMMV and all other caveats.

[marksdad]

i have never had a belle in house, but there was a time when i had las and corns side by side in my ht, and i too far prefere the corn sound, the la had a bit more (not much) high eb=nd, but the corn just had it all over the la in bass response, some say the la is quicker, and it may be true, but the bass eminating out of the front of the corn can be felt, like a wave, all in all i would take the corn hands down, plus the corn takes up so muchless room, i think better for the WAF factor