artto Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 John Malotky and Boomac came over to my place yesterday for a listening session. Boomac brought along some LPs. The first on I decided to play was Sonny Rollins Way Out West which Boomac informed me that in Alans (IMO very qualified) opinion, that this is one of the finest jazz recordings ever made, and I must agree. Only having the Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs CD reissue for many years I thought this would be a good vinyl/CD comparison. As I removed the record from its sleeve I was horrified. I thought, This cant be. Dirt. Fingerprints. Spots. Crud. I moved under some brighter light to get a better look. Yikes! I cant believe it! Boomac comes back into the room, Boomac I say, I have to reprimand you! Shame on you! Boomac with a confused look says Whats wrong? I say This record. Its filthy! Boomac says Oh, I got that one from Alan Songer! In all fairness to Alan, Boomac did give Alan an excellent endorsement as being very fair with his used record prices and complete satisfaction or your money back. But Alan, I sure hope you bought that record used! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Hasn't anyone washed it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I highly doubt Allan ever played that copy. I've bought a number of lps from Allan and you can always tell which ones he's played and which he hasn't. I'll bet he has 6 or 8 copies of that one. Probably got it at a rummage sale 25 years ago for a quarter. So which sounded better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Life is definitively too short and washing vinyls is definitively too long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I have a three disc attention span. With several hundred discs and growing, I will never finish washing them. So how did the listening test go Artto? Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 How did it go? To me, the primary difference on the LP was the snare drum sounded more believable. The bass was a little louder and with slightly more looseness (just short of "boomy") even though I had the (mono) center channel turned down 3dB from the where it was with CD. (for those of you who aren't aware of the effects of monoral......it makes the bass louder, even more so with phono analog because of the higher levels of channel crosstalk already present). The LP's surface noise actually wan't too bad, but there were some awful ticks and pops as expected. It has been my findings in recent years that when the playback system (room and all) is properly balanced it doesn't favor one format over the other. There are differences, yes. But I liken these to the difference between hearing Sonny Rollins in the 10th row of concert hall "A" verses the 20th row of concert hall "B". You like A, I like B type of thing. A great recording is a great recording and will playback that way regardless of format provided proper care has been taken in the entire production/manufacturing process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I wonder how much of the difference between CD and LP is the result of mastering and pressing process and how much is the technology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Since the two technologies are completely different, how does one determine at what point the field is level, that is, when the equipment involved is at the same level of quality and capability? Seems to be an impossible comparison to me... DM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Dman, Although I love my vinyl, I am leaning to the side that says digital is it's equal. I have been disappointed with digital for most of it's thirty year existance. It never lived up to the promises it made in 1973, until now. Many of the latest batch of remixes sound like they were done by people who could hear! That annoying siblance is disappearing and the noise floor seems to have dropped. The added benefits of no pops and clicks and the ability to play a whole album without getting up are plusses. And, I have yet to buy an SACD disc! I will soon, to hear what the fuss is about. Artto's fine Shanling costs about $2600, no more than a mid-fi TT and cartridge. If the worst thing you guys can say about the comparison is "it sounds like a different hall" it's a winner! Tube rolling can produce the same effect in the same amp. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Two issues here for me - I can't in my wildest dreams imagine the Jazz Sensei selling a record that wasn't EXACTLY as described. Additionally, I would be surprised if Allan did not "under-grade" anything he gave OR sold to anyone. Heck, the time I went to his home for a listening session he practically FORCED me to take home some records FREE! Allan is one of the good guys! Even for a Limousine Liberal Democrat. As far as differences in sound, some people say it's all in the RIAA curve used in recording and phono stage amplification. Ask Andy K what kind of terse response I got from a big time speaker design guy who spoke at one of our SoCal Horn Group get togethers when I asked him why vinyl sounds better to me. Regardless of what he said (and it wasn't pretty), I still think vinyl sounds better. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I've heard the rumors that vinyl is "better" than cd's, but having sworn off (and dumped) vinyl in the 80's, I have a certain bias, as well as the inability to make any definitive listening tests... Back when I had LP's, my gear was mediocre at best, not to be compared with what I have now, so I have no real basis to make a judgement... I don't see any way to arrive at a conclusion about this one. I can only say that vinyl (systems) can only be compared to vinyl and digital to digital. However, I haven't really ever heard a truly high-quality vinyl rig, either! So it MAY be true, who knows? DM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Chris, Good Lord my friend, nobody said anything about Allan offering or selling anything that was less than described. Heck, he takes things back with no questions asked and you don't maintain a 100% positive feedback on eBay without being 100% on the up and up. This was just an inside joke. Artto got on me because there were fingerprints and dust on the LP. I said, "hey, I got that one from Allan Songer and I never had it out of the sleeve." It was all in fun. Geeze, I've opened new LPs that wern't perfectly clean. Besides, I think the LP that Artto was talking about (bit noisy) was "Blues In The Abstract Truth" which is not an LP I got from Allan. Once cleaned, the Rollins LP played quite well. Allan is the jazz Sensei. I highly recommend his advice and any record or other product that he might offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Boomac, Sorry, I didn't read the post as an "inside joke". After seeing the heading I jumped the gun. My apologies. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I think highly of Allan every time I use Krud Kutter. Truly an amazing product... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 ---------------- On 9/14/2004 3:42:55 PM fini wrote: I think highly of Allan every time I use Krud Kutter. Truly an amazing product... ---------------- Fini, Where did you find Krud Kutter retail? Klipsch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Chris, No worries! Can I have your Cornwalls now? Aren't you getting tired of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I do not listen to every record I sell--espesically if they are clean looking reissues. The 'Way Out West' that Scott got from me is one of those "Analogue Productions" LPs that I picked up at a record swap meet a while ago. It looked near mint and I sold it as such without even giving it a listen. Any time I am selling a vintage ORIGINAL LP that is worth more than $40 I clean it and listen to the ENTIRE record before grading it. There is NO WAY I could clean everything that goes through my hands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 jazman, It was on the shelf at Raley's, I think. I use it all over the house: laundry, dishes, sticker residue (Allan's rec.)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 If you buy an LP from Alan Songer you WILL NOT get an item that is AS DESCRIBED.What you WILL get is an item that is BETTER than described. He is very conservative in his grading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I've bought lps from Allan you could eat off of (God forbid). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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