Painful Reality Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 ---------------- On 12/22/2004 10:46:26 PM DeanG wrote: Jeff, the nice single drivers are really pricey. I'd love to hear something using them. I heard the top's a little dry -- is that true? ---------------- In some case it is. In other it ain't. I can't stand Lowthers and Reps R-1, since as you say, the top end is a bit dry and there is two huge peaks at 2K and 10K. But boy those are the fastest speakers I ever heard. I mean they leave a Klipschorn in their starting blocks on transient. Fostex are generaly quite better to avoid listening fatigue but a tad lacking in the high frequencies. Not as fast as the Lowther also. Coral drivers are really nice but close to unobtainum now, especially the really nice Coral Beta serie. Goodmans and Diatones are also really nice. Really sweet top end. But my favorite single drivers are by far the AER mk 1. It's a superb driver, as long as you are willing to pay a premium (1400 to 1600 for a pair of drivers alone). Top end is really sweet and more extended than a Klipschorn. It.s also fast as hell, the only fastest thing I heard (besides Lowther and Reps) are Avant Garde Duo and Trio. The beauty of any single driver design is that it will allow to get rid of the crossover. This combined with a flawless coherence makes it quite unique for jazz listening (which is about 90% of my listening time). The drawback is that you'll have to forget about deep bass unless you have a HUGE horn that no wife will accept in a house. In my case I'm willing to live with that. Single drivers also won't do as good to give you the "big scale" sense than a Khorn will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 "The beauty of any single driver design is that it will allow to get rid of the crossover." Ah Hell no. Are you out of your mind? If you don't horn load (bass) the AER, and just put it in a very small box (monitor) -- how low will it go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76scalas Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Dean: Very Nice!!! Where is your turntable??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 ---------------- On 12/23/2004 12:09:51 AM DeanG wrote: If you don't horn load (bass) the AER, and just put it in a very small box (monitor) -- how low will it go? ---------------- The AER Mk 1 won't go far in a small box. Going this route, I'd choose the appropriate Fostex. First, it would be designed to be used in a small box and second it would be MUCH cheaper (like $100 a speaker instead of $700). Diatones, Coral Flat 8 or Flat 6 could also be used in a small box. Rumor has it that AER did put out a driver to be used in a small bass reflex enclosure but I never saw it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 ---------------- On 12/22/2004 5:48:06 PM aviserated wrote: But why are a lot of people trying to turn down the bright mids with L-Pods or what ever. ---------------- I know everyone else has said this, but the Klipschorns aren't bright by any stretch of the imagination. In fact the Klipschorn midrange is absolutely brilliant and is the real magic in it's sound. Don't be mislead about placement issues either. Yes they need corners, but every room of decent size has corners. I wouldn't put the Klipschorn in really small rooms, because the bass wouldn't be able to breath properly. But you can say that about any decent full range loudspeaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 ---------------- On 12/23/2004 12:23:46 AM 76scalas wrote: Dean: Very Nice!!! Where is your turntable??? ---------------- He hasn't (re)discovered the beauty of vinly yet!! By the way Dean, how does the low ceiling condition affect the sound with those Khorn, I would think the lower profile Scala's our Belle's would have suited the room better, hey ya wanna trade! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Hey Dean, The room looks real cool - nice job - KHorns with ears - I like it!! And I had no idea you were 6 foot 9. As for the original question - running RF's with SET - I have heard many RF setups but most seem to be with higher watt amplification than low power SET amps offer typically. IME they seem to mate best with PP amp designs of something around 30-70 wpc, although they can sound great with the right SS amplification at anything upto 200 wpc. YMMV and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 My former two channel system with PM2A Lowthers (I think these drivers now retail for around $1,600/pr.) in rear-loaded Medallion Horns (built from a flat kit). They are incredibly fast, and also do not require crossovers. I did find them dry-sounding when they were new, and they needed nearly 1000 hours of break-in to loosen the surrounds. They have astoundingly good transient response, and sounded extremely good with the pair of amps seen in the foreground. These were based on JFL's Horus design, and this picture was taken soon after I finished them. As Jeff said, they fall off really sharply at around 50-60 Hz. I am now using them as the side speakers in the surround setup I have with Shawn's Lexicon. I was worried about them having a beamy response in this application, but the Lexicon has taken care of that. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tillmbil Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Dean, paint that room will you. I get snow blind just looking at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Oh, I'm going to paint it alright -- the same color as the false corners. I guess I'll have to hand out sunglasses. The ceilings aren't a problem Tom. In fact, I believe they help. Also, the K-horns are tilted up in the back about an inch or so, and the horns are firing dead on at the chair. Remember: Controlled Directivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviserated Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 Thanks for all of the response guys, I worked nightshift last night and I have just now read every bodies comments. With the RF-7's that I once owned, sometimes I did witness that magical transparent listening experience "when the speakers would just disappear" using a cheap solidstate receiver. I bet the RF-7 would have sounded even more magical with SET amps. But the speakers were way too big for my 11.5 by 15 thin, resonating, paneled livingroom. The bass could be overwelming had I not turned it down with the tone knob. This is why I am leaning more toward the next size smaller RF-5 or RF-35 which also like the bigger RF-7 has the higher positioned "above ear level" horn tweeter for that slightly rolled off, less bright, and better imaging sound. These are only my guesses which I think are logical. But the only sure way for me to find out is to audition a pair in my livingroom. Has anybody ever given the RF-5 or RF-35 a fair chance with SET amps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Leo (who posted above) runs RF-7's with SET, and I ran them for a while with some Welborne Apollos. Don't forget, dropping down in the line and you lose sensitivity. There is no substitute for the 102db/w sensitivity of the RF-7 unless you go to big Heritage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 don't forget there are a wide variety of SET amps, different tubes offer different sounds (and powers) it seems to me that the RF-7 might not be sensitive enough for 45, 2A3 or 300B SETS however the 211, 805 based SETs might do ya. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Leo's parafed Moondogs with cobalt OPT's sound quite magical with the RF7's ... As usual, he understates what he's accomplished there. The Black Gate mod to his Philips DVD963SA, and cap conditioning on his crossovers, just smoothes out the last bits of edge. Aviscerated, one thought given your small room. A nice pair of Heresies on slanted risers might sound pretty darned pleasing to you. They can be had on the used market for $300 - $600, depending on condition and vintage, and are easy to live with. Many state they lack in the low end, but for your room, which probably vibrates like hell, they could be quite nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 I was thinking the same thing -- go to smaller speakers and tilt or elevate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviserated Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 ---------------- The drivers were about $200 bucks if I recall and I made the boxes myself. It certainly is a bargain in that sense. While I made them for monitoring applications like listening to various tube types and caps and amps and such, they turned out to be pretty musical too. Although, they are not good at trying to be a big room filling speaker as you get with a big horn setup. If you like wall-rattling, this is a bad choice. If you like the "thing" that headphones do, but wish they were nopt wrapped around your head, this is up your alley. mdenen ---------------- This sounds really fun and inexpensive. I would love to get into speaker building and finishing them with some sort of exodic wood veneer. Could you give use a little more info on box demensions, parts list, and where I can purchase these parts. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 http://www.madisound.com/ Get in the Catalog section, click on Fostex. Scroll to the bottom and there is many links to enclosures using Fostex drivers. Fostex makes some nice woofers. Anyone hung up on audio should at least play with some full-range drivers. They have that coherance thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviserated Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 ---------------- On 12/23/2004 3:21:20 PM mike stehr wrote: http://www.madisound.com/ Get in the Catalog section, click on Fostex. Scroll to the bottom and there is many links to enclosures using Fostex drivers. Fostex makes some nice woofers. Anyone hung up on audio should at least play with some full-range drivers. They have that coherance thing. ---------------- Boy do I have a lot to learn. Awsome site! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviserated Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 ---------------- On 12/23/2004 12:02:39 AM Painful Reality wrote: ---------------- On 12/22/2004 10:46:26 PM DeanG wrote: Jeff, the nice single drivers are really pricey. I'd love to hear something using them. I heard the top's a little dry -- is that true? ---------------- In some case it is. In other it ain't. I can't stand Lowthers and Reps R-1, since as you say, the top end is a bit dry and there is two huge peaks at 2K and 10K. But boy those are the fastest speakers I ever heard. I mean they leave a Klipschorn in their starting blocks on transient. Fostex are generaly quite better to avoid listening fatigue but a tad lacking in the high frequencies. Not as fast as the Lowther also. Coral drivers are really nice but close to unobtainum now, especially the really nice Coral Beta serie. Goodmans and Diatones are also really nice. Really sweet top end. But my favorite single drivers are by far the AER mk 1. It's a superb driver, as long as you are willing to pay a premium (1400 to 1600 for a pair of drivers alone). Top end is really sweet and more extended than a Klipschorn. It.s also fast as hell, the only fastest thing I heard (besides Lowther and Reps) are Avant Garde Duo and Trio. The beauty of any single driver design is that it will allow to get rid of the crossover. This combined with a flawless coherence makes it quite unique for jazz listening (which is about 90% of my listening time). The drawback is that you'll have to forget about deep bass unless you have a HUGE horn that no wife will accept in a house. In my case I'm willing to live with that. Single drivers also won't do as good to give you the "big scale" sense than a Khorn will do. ---------------- Is there a universal enclosure design that would work for all the above mentioned speakers? Simply change the front wooden cover of the box to test different single drivers if I had to? Also would my Sonus Faber speaker stands work OK with these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 ---------------- On 12/23/2004 5:24:02 PM aviserated wrote: Is there a universal enclosure design that would work for all the above mentioned speakers? Simply change the front wooden cover of the box to test different single drivers if I had to? Also would my Sonus Faber speaker stands work OK with these? ---------------- As Mdeneen once said, the only thing you can be sure of with a universal device is that is won't fit anything. You better pick up a driver and use the appropriate enclosure. The cost of building these is ridiculously low anyway. If interested in trying single drivers either horn loaded or in a small bass reflex enclosure, this site is a nice resource. http://melhuish.org/audio/ As for you stands, I don't see why these wouldn't do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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