Handmade Electronics?

[jt1stcav]

Enlighten me, Dean...I'm not up on what's best in the upgrading department. I wasn't aware that Hammond and Solen were sub-par.

[seti]

----------------

On 12/27/2004 12:01:22 AM jt1stcav wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14974&item=5739637489&rd=1

I had no idea Lam sold a phono preamp...this auction went for $320 last week. Hope this helps, seti.

----------------

Hmm thanks I'll try anything once lol....Lite Audio hmm does he resell or build the amps he sells? It's too bad they hide those pretty tubes in that case I really dig the exposed tubes that way it makes my audio room look like something out of a Frankenstein flick

[Deang]

I don't think the hardcore DIY types would say they are "sub-par" -- just par. Decent stuff usually comes standard with those parts. When they upgrade, they go the way of Magnequest, Black Gates for the PS, and Hovland or Jensen Copper PIO coupling caps. Edmund actually uses some pretty decent stuff. I'm just saying pulling what's in there for a Hammond is more like an even swap. I think the preamp is a no-brainer for a person on a tight budget, or has the patience to deal with the shipping. I imagine the amps sound pretty good too.

[Erik Mandaville]

Jim:

I think you are right. In my opinion, Solen and Hammond components can provide very respectable performance at an equally good price, and depending on what is being used in BEZ stuff originally, may in fact be an upgrade -- if just in the sense of longevity and durability. I have used Solen capacitors for many years, both in crossover networks and in electronics -- from coupling capacitors to input to filter caps, and they are very good for the money. In fact, I think they come very close to and possibly match what I have heard with Kimbercaps, Hovlands, Jensens, and some others. The Solens may subjectively impart a slight edginess, which may actually be one way of balancing out some other characterstics of a particular circuit design. The preamp wiring shown in the attachment includes a couple of 1.5uf Solen capacitors that sound just as good as the Hovland Musicaps that have replaced them. The Hovlands were very kindly given to me by a friend for some work I had done for him. The Solen capacitors are now being used in my Horus amps as the input to filter to raise B+ up a bit after the rectifier. Coupling capacitors are Jensen oils, which work particulary well in the Horus, which is a very fast and open-sounding amplifier.

Speaking of Horus amps: These are probably the best SET amps I have heard, and I used a Hammond power transformer of excellent quality. The 2A3 2.5 filament transformers are also Hammond, as are the filter chokes in the power supply.

I think the application of the part in question is an important consideration, but in the many years I have been making my own euquipment, I have never written off Solen and Hammond. I know of die-hard DIYers who think capacitors from Hovland an some other companies are insanely over-priced. I have and am using them myself, but always have difficulty spending that kind of money for small values of capacitance. So, what works well in one situation or design, may not be the case in another. In fact, most really serious DIYers I know are far more interested in circuit concept and design than they are in the various passive components used to make them. It's my own belief that the design matters a great deal more than the type of capacitor or resistor used. Certainly one can spend much more on output transformers, and in that case I think Electra-Print and Magnequest (and a few others) are very good -- but can also both be costly.

One has to weigh a number of considerations when making upgrades, and unless cost is of no consequence, price and performance have always been important considerations. BTW: The filament transformer shown in the picture is a very exotic and unusual design -- from Radio Shack. It's what makes the tube glow!

edit: You can also see a couple of Hovlands riding piggy back on the final filter capacitor in the PS. The Hovlands weren't doing anything on that parictular day, so I put them to work as bypass capacitors.

[Erik Mandaville]

And! on another side of some other coin, there are those designers who would much rather do away with output transformers entirely. They are sometimes thought of as sort of 'necessary evils' in tube audio design, and are needed to match the high output impedance of the output stage (such as 2,500 ohms) to the comparatively lower impedance of the loudspeaker voice coil (such as 4,8, or 16 ohms). That's not the only thing they do, but the point is that some engineers would rather get them completely out of the signal path.

I am in the process of building an amplifier right now, and is one I have thought both looked very good in terms of the aesthetic aspect, but also one that should provide wonderful performance. In some of the reviews I have read about it over the years, it was rated more highly than a couple of other 2A3 amps that have been discussed on this forum. The amp I am working almost was never sold as a kit, but I was given the option of building it myself with the supplied schematic. It's also the only SET amp I will have built myself that uses (hint) regulated DC on the filament supply.

And now for the coupling capacitor question! What does it use? None!

I'll take a picture of it when it is finished, but I have my dear wife to thank for it. She has always thought it was incredible looking, and as a stereo amp (for which I'm going to include some of my own channel separation circuitry, ground returns, etc.)will work very good for the derived center channel in our system.

Shawn's fabulous Lexicon, that has provided us with the most enjoyable listening experience we have ever had, has been packed up to ship today. Thanks again, Shawn!

Erik

[Erik Mandaville]

I said: "...and as a stereo amp (for which I'm going to include some of my own channel separation circuitry, ground returns, etc.)will work very good for the derived center channel in our system."

Meaning just that the 'stereo aspect' of the amp will make connections to the Klipsch minibox more straightforward. I will be using a Moondog for the actual center channel amp. Except for comparative purposes, I doubt I will ever listen to the system again in two-channel stere.

[Marvel]

Have any of you guys ever used Lundahl transformers? I know their line stage and mic input models are pretty highly rated. I was looking at a pair for EL34 PP OPTs and they were about $115 each (U.S. dollars). Not to badly priced.

I would give the Hammonds a decent rating. At least they are consistent and available, at a quite reasonable price. Most DIYers can't run with the big dogs.

Marvel

[Deang]

"In fact, I think they come very close to and possibly match what I have heard with Kimbercaps, Hovlands, Jensens, and some others. The Solens may subjectively impart a slight edginess..."

Yikes, what are you saying? The signatures of those other caps are the antithesis of the Solens, at least in crossovers. You say the Solens "subjectively" impart a "slight edginess", when in fact it's not subjective at all -- because anyone with their hearing intact hears it!! Not only are the Solens "edgy", but they also make everything sound thin. How you think the Solens "come very close to and possibly match" ANYTHING is beyond me. Then you bundle up the Jensens with the Hovlands, and that's going from one extreme to the other (low loss to lossy) -- and those two caps sound completely different in networks. Please quit saying stuff like that -- it's plain wrong.

[Born2RockU]

ERIK :

I can't wait to hear your new amp. What a great way to end then year !!!!

....but, it is so sad that you had to let the Lexicon go home....

***** Once I heard 3-channel , I never went back to 2-channel. *****

[jt1stcav]

----------------

On 12/27/2004 12:41:55 AM seti wrote:

Hmm thanks I'll try anything once lol....Lite Audio hmm does he resell or build the amps he sells? It's too bad they hide those pretty tubes in that case I really dig the exposed tubes that way it makes my audio room look like something out of a Frankenstein flick

----------------

I know nothing about Lam's DACs and phono pre's (I assume "Lite Audio" is a kit from another manufacturer that he assembles and sells). Edmund does design and build his own power amps and preamps under the "BEZ" brand name.

I know what you mean, seti...I like exposed tubes as well. You could ask Edmund if he'll build an exposed tube phono preamp...who knows, maybe he could.

Thanks Dean and Erik for bringing me up to par concerning Hammond and Solen components. And good luck Erik on your new stereo amp design!

[Daddy Dee]

Marvel,

Thanks for posting on this amp. Sure does look good. The 45's look interesting, too. Would be alot of fun to try out.

[Erik Mandaville]

Hi, Jim:

You're welcome. This is a really wonderful amp, and has and continues to be an enjoyable challenge. It was totally unexpected, as well! Marie knew I would much rather do the wiring myself than have it factory done, and she is right. I'll share a picture of it when it is finished.

Have a good New Year,

Erik

[sfogg]

Erik,

" It's also the only SET amp I will have built myself that uses (hint) regulated DC on the filament supply."

I know I know......

Shawn

[Erik Mandaville]

Hi, Shawn:

I know you know!

The Lex is on its way home. Actually, I'm keeping the REAL one here, and am sending back one I made out of cardboard -- it looks almost identical, except for where the black Sharpie marker bled just a bit on the the letter 'L' in 'Lexicon.' I even installed an actual IEC connector with screws on the back, as well as some lights that run off a couple of batteries. It's weighted with zip lock bags filled with sand, and you will hardly notice a difference!

I'll will be sending you an email, too.

Erik

PS: I going to order a 'nicer' little box for the Klipsch minibox. This will be a cast enclosure with a little more weight then the other one I used. It won't flop around on the floor so easily. Come to think of it, I could spend a few thousand dollars on an enclosure machined from a solid block of aluminum, complete with a 3/4" face plate -- all black anodized. I could put in a stepped attenuator, cardas RCA jack and binding posts -- a small red (or blue is cool, too!)LED and a power cord. I found a nice power cord in my Music Direct catalog that is a bargain at just under $3,000.

[jt1stcav]

And don't forget those high quality knobs, Erik!

[sfogg]

Erik,

"Actually, I'm keeping the REAL one here, and am sending back one I made out of cardboard -- it looks almost identical, except for where the black Sharpie marker bled just a bit on the the letter 'L' in 'Lexicon.'..... It's weighted with zip lock bags filled with sand, and you will hardly notice a difference!

"

LOL! Believe it or not but I've actually seen people recommend not buying a Lex. because 'it didn't weight enough.' Your zip lock bag trick would have taken care of that problem.

"Come to think of it, I could spend a few thousand dollars on an enclosure machined from a solid block of aluminum, complete with a 3/4" face plate -- all black anodized.  I could put in a stepped attenuator, cardas RCA jack and binding posts -- a small red (or blue is cool, too!)LED and a power cord.  I found a nice power cord in my Music Direct catalog that is a bargain at just under $3,000."

Humm.... might be nice. If you didn't want to go through that DIY PITA hassle though you could just buy an MC-4 for what that power cord cost. Probably won't give nearly as nice of an improvement as what that power cord does though.

I'll let you know when I get the Lex. back.

Thanks,

Shawn

[edwinr]

----------------

On 12/27/2004 5:26:00 PM Erik Mandaville wrote:

I going to order a 'nicer' little box for the Klipsch minibox...

----------------

It's like a newly washed and waxed car - the shinier it is, the faster it goes...

[Erik Mandaville]

Jim: You will always remember those knobs! I have to confess, I have been considering some different possibilities for the new amp -- the kind one might find on old fashioned tube receiving radios!

Edwin: that actually happens to me, and I wonder that the same thing might be possible when installing new and expensive capacitors in components! The oil can caps in the new crossovers I designed have some surface rust on them, but the overall sound is really -- IMO -- good. I know where I can get some brand new ones of the same value, but just don't think I need to. Those I'm using now sound excellent.

Shawn: I understand what you are saying about the weight issue. I've heard the same thing said in relation the the Transcendent Grounded Grid preamp, which isn't heavy at all, yet it sounds superb. It's unfortunate when weight becomes an important element in judging the sound of a component -- as if more weight automatically means better sound. In some cases it may be the case, in others it may not. I hope we can learn to place more emphasis on design concept and implementation than the kind of parts used to bring it to life! Something can always be modified and changed with a different cap, resistor, etc., but the result is purely subjective in terms of whether the change is an improvement or a degredation.

An example: I REALLY liked the Wright 2A3 monoblocks when I had them here -- thanks to Daddy Dee. They were open, transparent, surprisingly quiet, and provided a great deal of music listening enjoyment. However, their designer does not rely on the use of expensive capacitors and resistors. In fact, the least expensive parts are used for resistance and capacitance, and the single cap in the signal path was a mylar cap. However, he does balance this out with an available high quality OPTs from MagneQuest.

Transcendent Sound, as you know, also does not use grossly expensive passive parts, yet the products are outstanding (I happen to think).

Erik

[jt1stcav]

----------------

On 12/27/2004 6:04:54 PM Erik Mandaville wrote:

..."I have to confess, I have been considering some different possibilities for the new amp -- the kind one might find on old fashioned tube receiving radios!"

----------------

Here you go, Erik...on eBay see this auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5739844221&indexURL=0#ebayphotohosting

[jt1stcav]

I still like the classy polished aluminum and brass knobs for audio gear, though...