Coytee Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 How do the two compare? It was suggested to me that the 300B SET would give the same presence, depth, soundstage, projection that the 2A3 SET would give. I don't care to hear that the 2A3 "gives you all the power you need with Klipshcorns", that's not the question. I'm looking to get opinions on if the 300B will give "the same" or similar sound as was suggested to me by (gasp) a company that doesn't make a 2A3, but happens to make a 300B. That fact alone makes me dubious of his comment. So, from a technical point (which is why I origionally asked this in the technical questions area ) do the two sound similar? Right now, (this is what I told the Jolida guy) I'm intending on keeping my Jolida 502B for when I want spl, but might get a 2A3 for that spatial effect when I'm sitting there quietly. I already have a Peach in preparation of the amp acquisition. The main question is, which flavor. I'm unable to audition anything as there is no store anywhere around me that I'm aware of, that stocks/sells this kind of stuff (meaning SET). Thoughts on sonic differences/similarities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 For what it is worth: A few years ago I purchased my first SET amp which was a Cayin integrated using 300Bs (the unit might never have reached US shores). It was a very smooth sound...very easy to listen to. Still, eventually I had to admit (to my own dismay) that when comparing it to other (non SET) amps that it sounded kind of 'slow', seductive? - yes!! - but not quite 'fast' enough. Having been bitten by that SET magic, though, I later obtained a pair of 2A3 monos and the immediate impression (compared to the 300B amp) was a more balanced sound with more controlled (tighter) bass. Would I like to try the 300B sound again in a 'better' amp? Sure (if funds were no issue ) but my impression runs along the lines that the lower power SETs might actually be more 'neutral' (i.e. showing less mid range prominence). What might make SET amps special (IMO) is this ability to create the illusion that you are actually not listening to speakers. It's perhaps this 'music-hanging-in-the-air' quality where they can be exceptionally good. (And yes, good PP designs can come pretty close). Where they differ seems to be tonality: 300Bs being 'warmer' than 2A3s or 45s. As you know, for others the question of power is an issue. I guess I am lucky (or deaf enough) that I can enjoy all kinds of music with each of my amps (even with 1.5 watts), but that's just ME. Of course it's difficult to generalize, perhaps it was just this one 300B amp which played in the way described, or my listening preferences have changed. In the end there is only one reliable source of judgement: your ears! Anyway, good luck 'hunting'. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 In my SET amp I've used a couple of pairs of nos 2A3s and a pair of new 2.5V TJ Meshplate 300Bs (300Bs made to operate in the 2A3 heater and bias space). I find the nos 2A3s (KenRad and RCA) to be more natural sounding (which to me means less distorted). Some design tweaks in a 300B amp could do the same for that tube. I don't know. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Unfortunantly, I've never had the pleasure to compare between the 2A3 and the 300B (the 300B being the very first SET I've heard). I was compelled to purchase the BEZ Model T3A 2A3 SE amp due to the reviews I've read on how 2A3s sound a bit more nuetral, but I really wanted more output than 3.5 WPC...the Model T3B 300B had 8 WPC, so I chose this amp for my Cornwalls...that's all there was to it. Had I been prevy to audition the two amplifiers side by side, regardless of power ratings, I may have chosen the 2A3 model first on sound quality alone (if the 2A3 really does sound "better" (for lack of a better word) than the 300B). But there are audiophiles out there that prefer the 300Bs tonal qualities just as much if not more than the 2A3, 45, 805, or whatever. I'm sure if I roll a pair of expensive NOS Western Electric 300Bs, or even new Emission Labs meshplates, the sonic qualities may improve over the cheaper Chinese Shuguang 300BCs I own now. Nevertheless, I'm quite content with my 300B purchase; it sounds wonderful and life-like to my ears, and I'm sure you'd like it as well (can't beat that SET "magic" no matter what form it comes in). Hopefully other more informed SET owners who've experienced both types will chime in with additional information for you to ponder over. IMO you won't go wrong with either. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I sold my AES 300b SET amp a couple of weeks ago, but before I did, I put it back into my system, replacing my new Horus 2A3 monoblocs just to do one last comparison. I won't get into the sound differences between the AES and the Horus here, because I'm sure they are mostly due to amplifier design and quality of components. I will say that the difference in volume level on my Khorns was surprisingly minimal. I found the 2A3 monoblocs able to be nearly as loud as the AES 300b. 5 times the wattage of the 300b should have given me an @ 50% increase in volume. It wasn't even close, maybe 10%. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 16, 2005 Author Share Posted January 16, 2005 ---------------- On 1/15/2005 4:02:41 PM jt1stcav wrote: (can't beat that SET "magic" no matter what form it comes in). ---------------- That's one of the things I've been trying to figure out, is it the tube (2A3/300B/KT66) or is it the format (SET/PP) Is it possible to have one chassis that's able to swap out the 2A3 and the 300B so you could purchase one chassis and do a side by side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 There might be, but remember not all SETs are created equal and amps that accept 300Bs and 2A3s (and/or 45 for that matter) MIGHT not run ideally with all of those tubes. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 yes, but the speaker does matter, many of the people loving the sound of more powerful (warmer?) 300B tubes, especially in the upper bass registers, can not appreciate the low powered sweetness of the 2A3 tube, but the Khorn lover can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigma Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I sure would like to hear more opinions about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 "In my SET amp I've used a couple of pairs of nos 2A3s and a pair of new 2.5V TJ Meshplate 300Bs (300Bs made to operate in the 2A3 heater and bias space). I find the nos 2A3s (KenRad and RCA) to be more natural sounding (which to me means less distorted)." My audio friend and I did a comparison between his 2A3 amplifier with James Iron, and my Homebrew 300B with the 2.5 volt TJ solid plate 300B's. His 2A3's he is using are 5930's. The TJ's have a rich and robust sound to them, the 5930's like you said sound more natural. More air and extension. The TJ's sound good, but they ain't a military 2A3.... We even swapped the TJ 300B's into his 2A3 amp, it pretty much confirmed that the 5930's sound a bit better. Powerwise, it's not really a issue to me. The 300B amp may crank it bit more, but the 2A3 amp boogies as well. Not enough to make a difference in my opinion. And NOS 2A3's can still be had......at a reasonable cost. I wonder if they'll ever be able to get the little Digi-amp chips to emulate a nice NOS 2A3 or 45? Good luck, ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 FWIW, I believe, the 2a3 was Mr. Klipsch's favorite tube. Both are great tubes. Do you like the sound of a Martin or a Guild? A California Cab or a French Cab? AMD or Intel? 300B's are said to have a better bottom end, but I haven't heard it. MY Rec? buy a Bottlehead Paramour or the new S.E.X. and a Parabee, build both for the price of buying one from a mfg, and decide for yourself. Peace, TommyK Paramours, Parabees, Mac 5100, MC-30s, St-70s, and various other pp El-34 amps. Belles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Coytee, If you are going to be around Little Rock, let me know. You'd be welcome to stop by and listen to my Wright 2A3's driven by a Peach on Khorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 I would think that the differences would be more circuit-dependant. A great 300B amp would sound better than a compromised 2A3 design, and vice-versa. Folks with a boat-load of experience (I am not in that group) assert that transformer quality is a major factor in a simple circuit like most SET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Some time ago, when sorting out whether to go with a 300B or 2A3, I was asking a similar question and scouring posts and info on several forums. Reading Ron Welbourne's description of the difference between his DRD amps, he described the 300B as like a "really good sounding 300B". Now, I don't know exactly what he meant by that, but my take on it was that that poor sounding 300B's are common enough to draw a contrast with his own 300B. One thing that is surprising to me is that going from 3.5 to 8 wpc will do so little for increasing dbs on any given system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 My thinking is along the same lines as Ben's. My VAC uses 300B's in push-pull, and I can just about bet that any 300B SET user listening to my system with their eyes closed would mistake it for something completely different. "Hey dude, is that like -- Pentode with really bad tubes?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 ---------------- On 1/31/2005 5:57:32 PM DeanG wrote: Hey dude, is that like -- Pentode with really bad tubes? ---------------- Hmm...does he mean bad as in poor, defective, out of spec or otherwise not worth 45 cents, or does he mean bad as in wicked, sweet, nasty, cool, kick ya in the hiney type thing I can't tell you how often my wife does that kind of stuff to me..."you can't water that plant too much" so, I can drown it, or it'll drown if I spit on it? Gotta love the the language sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 "Bad tubes", as in "tubes going bad". "Pentode", as in an amp that doesn't sound much like a directy heated triode. It was a joke, and I was just trying to drive home the point that the circuit itself will end up having as much or more to do with the sound you end with as the type of output tube it's running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 ---------------- On 1/15/2005 5:14:11 AM dubai2000 wrote: What might make SET amps special (IMO) is this ability to create the illusion that you are actually not listening to speakers. It's perhaps this 'music-hanging-in-the-air' quality where they can be exceptionally good. (And yes, good PP designs can come pretty close). Where they differ seems to be tonality: 300Bs being 'warmer' than 2A3s or 45s. Wolfram ---------------- "'music-hanging-in-the-air' quality" This is exactly how I feel about my 300b SET and after trying some solid state gear this week I have found a new appreciation for tube/set. The feeling that the music is just in the room and not radiating from the speakers is bloody brilliant. After I get setteled into my new house perhaps some of the arkansas crowd could come over for a listening session. I'd love to hear some other gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.