McIntosh and Khorns

[garymd]

I brought home an MC240 and C11 this weekend to audition. I've owned two other 240s and I've auditioned a C20 in the past. This is the first time I've ever listened to Mac equipment on Khorns however.

I'm EXTREMELY impressed! First thing I did was swap the 240 in place of my MkIIIs. After playing a couple SACDs I began to wonder if maybe I should keep the 240 and sell my MkIIIs! The soundstage is huge and the detail astounding. Plenty of headroom but that's never been an issue with my MkIIIs either. I then played a few LPs. I guess the MkIIIs are a bit more transparent as the 240 sounded a little less detailed and a bit flatter then the MkIIIs. Still, very impressive.

This 240 has all the original tubes (RCA Blackplates with Mac labels on the 6L6GC output tubes and all telefunken input tubes). The seller of these units runs a vintage repair shop and both units were checked out in advance. Both units also have multiple "official McIntosh" repair stickers on them and have been maintained by McIntosh since 1969.

I could only play CDs with the C11 but it sounded fantastic as well. Much better then the C20 I auditioned not long ago although there was a slight noise issue with that C20. The 12AX7s consist of 5 telefunkens and 1 sylvania and the original walnut cabinet looks brand new.

These are really beautiful units. As tempting as ebay is right now with skyrocketing Mac prices, I'm still going to offer these to forum members first. PM me if you are interested.

The 240 may be spoken for by another forum member but the C11 may be for sale if anyone is interested. Larry is bringing his camera with him tomorrow so pics should be posted by tomorrow night if Larry has time.

I take back everything I ever said about Macs not being for me. I'm not sure if these are just better sounding units then the ones I've had in the past or if the Khorns make the difference but I could certainly live with these in my main system if a gun was put to my head.

[ben.]

If you find time, try rolling some 12AU7 on the 240. Is the C11 a line-only version of the C22?

Another unsolicited suggestion- make sure you bring some extra lighting down to the dungeon so the pics aren't all flash.

[greg928gts]

Gary, I might be interested in the 240 if it's available. Please email me and let me know if it is. I've got a MX110 that needs a 240 to go with it!

Greg

[scott0527]

Hey Gary, you have email and/or PM

[garymd]

Ben,

I already thought about the lighting issue. I'll try to figure out a way to brighten things up tomorrow.

The C11 does have a phono section. From what I understand, the it's the father of the C22 and they are very similiar.

There's "Phono 1" and "Phono 2" inputs and the compensator switch on the face flips between "RIAA" and "LP." I think Allan used to own one. I believe he's off to the Jazz Bakery tonight so we may not hear from him for a while.

[LarryC]

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On 1/15/2005 10:04:59 PM bclarke421 wrote:

Another unsolicited suggestion- make sure you bring some extra lighting down to the dungeon so the pics aren't all flash.

----------------

Good point. I'll take a flash diffuser plus a halogen spot to warm up the lighting a bit. I really need a digital SLR w/macro lens for spot-on focusing. Thanks,

Larry

[ben.]

Cool. Of course, you could just plug in all the gear and the glow from the tubes should light things up nicely! Wish I could be there. Where the heck is Thebes? I bet he's staring at the 8B with a puddle of drool on the floor in front of him!

[garymd]

Ben,

I just realized why you asked about the phono section. DUH!!! The ouput on my Temper is too low.

[ben.]

Well, DUH, myself. I knew that.

BTW, very kind of you to offer this here. If any members are serious (and I'm sure you are), you will get this Mc well below what Gary could get on eBay right now. I think Gary is really taking seriously the concept of "paying forward" those free Khorns!

[Dflip]

http://www.roger-russell.com/amplif1.htm#mc240

MC-240 Tube. Stereo.

ELECTRICAL: 40w/ch stereo, 80w mono. Response 16-40kHz (+0 -0.1dB). Distortion 0.5%. Noise & hum -90dB. Output impedance 4, 8, 16, 125 and 600 ohms. 600 ohm center tap internally grounded. (2, 4, 8, 16 and 32 ohms in mono). Output voltages 25 (isolated), 70.7 (one side grounded) and 140V (center tap grounded). Internal impedance less than 10% of rated impedance. Input impedance 250k. Input sensitivity: 0.5V (in mono or twin amp). 2.0V in stereo.

MECHANICAL: Chrome chassis. Line output octal socket for higher impedances and voltages. Barrier strips for 4, 8 and 16 ohms. Audio inputs: stereo, twin and mono. Gain controls: twin amp, balance and mono. Input switch: stereo, twin amp or mono. Can be used for 80w mono. Line voltage switch: 117 or 125V.

TUBES: 4-6L6GC/7027A output, 3-12AX7, 2-12AU7, 2-12BH7 Solid state rectifier.

Size 8"H, 10-3/4"W and 17-1/4"D. Weight 56 lb. Sold from 1960-1969. Last retail price $288.00

The price was a lot cheaper back then, the latest is in the $1800 to 2400 US range depending on good to very good condition. Take a look at Mullards for the 12AU7's and RCA blackplates for the 12BH7's, they will make a difference. A good amp, but you might also look at the MC-30 which produces 30 W per channel and two mono amps can be had for a little less coin, $1600 - 1700 US. The tube complement is similar so the recommendations are the same. The difference is a tube rectifier which should be 5U4G Sylvania blackplate, or RCA blackplate. Tubes do make a huge difference.

Gary, thank you for offering a very good piece of equipment to the members of this forum.

Don

[jt1stcav]

The first time I ever heard a pair of Klipschorns was about 30 years ago in a showroom in New Haven, CT, powered by a McIntosh MC275 (preamp unknown) and a Nakamichi 680ZX cassette deck as its sole source. As a teen, I think this was my first climatic experience, and I still get excited just thinking about it (a little too much information there, I think)!

I know first hand how great SS Mac gear sounds with my ol' Cornwalls, so I'm not surprised how impressed Gary is with the MC240/C11 arrangement. If I had the cash, I'd wire it to his account first thing Monday and have the Macs shipped to me post-haste. Alas, I do not, but I'm pretty sure that total musical nirvana would be achieved for me by owning a McIntosh combination such as this for my Klipsch loudspeakers...maybe someday.

Hey Gary, I'll trade you my BEZ amp/pre for the Macs...how's that sound?

[garymd]

Let me sleep on it Jim.

DFlip - Show me where I can get a nice pair of MC30s for $1600 and I'll buy them right now! The last nice pair on ebay just went for over $4K!!!! Ask Gilbert about those! The prices have become ridiculous. Last year I bought two 240s for about the same price as this one and one was a little nicer cosmetically although it didn't sound quite as sweet.

[tillmbil]

Hey Gary, Glad to hear you like the MC240 again. After Craigs rebuild of your old one, it will stay in my 2nd system. I just won that pair of Mark IV's on E-Bay the other day. I was really looking for some Dynaco products. I miss my ST70. I would have kept it, but their were other purchases I wanted more. Plus, I really want to find an amplifier that is in mint condition.

If any one needs an MX110 for around $650.00, let me know. I have been hanging on to it, but have some other ideas in mind for a preamp.

Boy, I sure wish I could find an Marrantz 8B.

I just missed buying the Khorns in Florida. Just a little rich for my taste. I am bidding on a pair of Heresys right now in Tampa. Nine more hours to go.

[paul cbc]

PM sent regarding the MX 110.

paul

[Dflip]

DFlip - Show me where I can get a nice pair of MC30s for $1600 and I'll buy them right now! The last nice pair on ebay just went for over $4K!!!! Ask Gilbert about those! The prices have become ridiculous. Last year I bought two 240s for about the same price as this one and one was a little nicer cosmetically although it didn't sound quite as sweet.

Gary:

When I post prices or pictures, I usually have either found a picture or found a source for the information. Unfortunately, I didn't find a pair, only a single for $800. My Mc's were found listed for $1300 US in May and I got them for about $1200, but prices have gone squirrelly in the last couple of months. The source for the price is: http://www.mcintoshaudio.com/home.htm

[fini]

OK, so the site is all hopped-up again! Where are the dang pictures of this get-together/amp shoot-out/quilting bee???

[garymd]

A good time was had by all!

I've been schleping my wife and daughter around all day for MRIs and just got home.

Thebes and his Marantz, Klipschfoot and his Sony, Larry and his ears and camera and, of course, yours truly got the chance to compare 4 different amps in my system yesterday. I'll wait for Larry to post some pics although the lighting in my basement, even with spotlights, didn't get us very clear images.

More to come......Larry, Thebes, Klipschfoot please jump in.

[garymd]

BTW - Other than an EL34 blow-up (luckily I had spares) and my neighbor putting his truck's rear bumper through the side of my daughter's new Saturn as Thebes was leaving, it was a very successful day!

[thebes]

Well I'll be happy to jump in. A moot delightful day starting with warm greetings from the entire family, free food and a chance to listen to some truly awesome gear.

First up this is only my second listening experience with Khorns, Larry's being the first, and I'm still absolutly stunned by the Khorns. I also got to listen to absolutely beatuiful zebra wood Cornwalls and Heresy's yet another first for me.

Then we got into a high level amplifer shootout with four, count them, four pieces of heavy metal using both cd's through a top end Sony player and Gary's major top'o-the line turntable and cart.

Now you're going to half to bear with me here on the names of these things but because I'm not too good on this stuff, but Gary's primary drivers are a pair of Craig rebuilt monoblocs whose name has gone completly out of my mind, a McMacaroni 240, my own el-cheapo (as far as purchase price goes) Marantz 8b, and Fred's 200 watt per channel solid state bruiser I think by Teac.

Ignore this last dear readers I'm sure Gary will provide the proper nomenclature.

First up was Gary's monos and I got tell you they floored me. Staging, warmth, depth, clarity, musicality-they had it all on both cd and lp. The Macs were only just a smidge less impressive, for all intents and purpooses the same on lps but a little more bit, and I mena a little bit harsher, with cd's. Then after popping a replacememnt in for a runaway tube, we put the Marantz through it's paces, and since I don't yet have a preamp yet this was my first true listen. Warm, deep, perhaps the widest soundstage of this group, but the bass was flabby, clarity was only so so and very noticably deficient on a some handclapping on one song which is one of the things I use to judge accuracy. Larry also noticed a problem in the mid to high register which I sure he can describe better than me. The 8B will need a going over.

Finally the SS bruiser. Wow, effortless power, great staging, depth, detail, worked well with lps and only less so with cd's and maybe the tightest bass of the bunch. On one cd thoguh I do have to admit it sounded a bit harsh and forward compared to the tubes, so maybe a smidge more of a fatigue factor depending on what's being played.

Wow what a day. Ok now the hard part, no use in hesitating so here it goes:

Numero Uno are Gary's monos, coming up behind are the Macs, then the Marantz because I'm writing the review and can lie if I want to, and Fred's bruiser.

[garymd]

OK then, I'll go first.

We spent about 45 minutes listening to my current setup with the MkIIIs, Blueberry, Basis and Sony 555ES SACD. We played on LP:

The Beatles, Abbey Road MFSL

Glen Miller, In The Digital Mood

Illinois Jacket, Birthday Party

SACD we initially just played Diana Krall's, The Girl In The Other Room to use as a comparison.

Klipschfoot came in at the end of the session with the MkIIIs.

Next we plugged in the OHMYGODWHATASCORE Marantz. While warming up, one of the EL34s started glowing bright orange. After a little panic, we pulled it and luckily I had a couple Dynaco EL34s in my box-o-tubes. I was told they are Mullards and should be pretty good. No problems with that one and the bias was dead on. The bias on the Marantz is very cool BTW.

Playing basically the same music, the Marantz sounded very good. CDs were almost as good as the MkIIIs but LPs sounded a little thin. Still, a very cool and PRISTINE unit.

Next came the Mac 240. CDs sounded IMO better in some ways then the MkIIIs. More full-bodied but less airy and transparent. The suprising thing was the detail it provided. In my experience, you give up some detail to get that full-bodied, lush sound. Not with this unit. LPs again were thin sounding in comparison to the MkIIIs but good nonetheless. I put the Mac just a notch or two better than the Marantz.

We then hooked up Klipschfoot's 200 WPC Sony ES beast. It may have been the suprise of the day. It really dug deep and gave great detail. The highs were a little bright for my liking as most SS amps are, but not like most I've heard. Very clean and crisp. Not fatiging like I expected. Still, LPs were thin compared to the MkIIIs.

I was beginning to think there was a problem with my TT. When switching from CD to vinyl, the vinyl always sounded lousy. Then at the end we plugged the MkIIIs back in and the vinyl came back to life. It was a beautiful thing.

As I was walking Marty out to his car, my neighbor came over to tell me he just bashed in the side of my daughter's new Saturn and that's when the day ended for good. Probably 2 weeks of hell with insurance companies, repair facilities, etc.

All-in-all a great day with great folks. Couldn't ask for better company! Also, thanks to all the guys for helping me slide in the slab of marble Ben Clarke so generously shipped to me last week. It took all 4 of us! It's really stunning (especially compared to the MDF/bubblewrap rig I had under my table before) and when Larry posts pics, you should get a glimpse.