dog Posted May 13, 2005 Share Posted May 13, 2005 And here is a quote I found from a different forum...( In reference to the RF-7, RC-7 etc.. home theatre set-up with a pioneer elite receiver) "The speakers you have right now are very efficent. I can not imagine you are taxing the capabilities of your current receiver as it takes proably no more than 5 to 10 watts to drive your Klipsch(s). So an external amp would add nothing that you do not already have. I can certainly understand if it is a case of upgradeitis and having a new toy if that is what you are going through, but any change in sound would be the dreaded placebo effect." I am in the market to add a power amp to my set-up. Somebody, please tell me this post is not accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog Posted May 14, 2005 Author Share Posted May 14, 2005 http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10379 How accurate is this thread concerning amplification of Klipsch RF-7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 That post is not accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog Posted May 14, 2005 Author Share Posted May 14, 2005 Then... With quality amplification A Klipsch RF-7 owner should see an improvement in the performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 I have heard it said that the RF-7 presents a challenging load in terms of its impedence curve and will therefore benefit from a high current amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 ---------------- On 5/14/2005 12:19:01 AM dog wrote: Then... With quality amplification A Klipsch RF-7 owner should see an improvement in the performance. ---------------- Yes, a tremendous one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeV Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 I use a 250/wpc Acurus A250 to drive my RF-7 and it sounds great. I get very nice detailed highs and great bass. I demoed the 7's on 70/wpc receiver (Onkyo ?) and the highs and bass were definitely held back compared to my Acurus. I definitely recommend a powerful amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 I've had three units powering my RF-7s. First a Yamaha 5560 (75wpc?), a B&K AVR 307 (125 wpc) and now a B&K Ref 200.2. At each and every upgrade I can hear a pronounced difference in the speakers, there is just no question about it. I believe one of the differences is the watts-per-channel but the other is the high-current amplification driving the speakers. The difference with the 200 watt B&K separate amplifier is amazing. I often read forum members' posts about no longer needing a subwoofer after upgrading to separates. I was a bit skeptical, but gave them the benefit of the doubt and am now a believer from experience. The low end on the RF-7s is amazing when driven with good amplification. Take a listen for yourself and see what YOU think. David *** EDIT Welcome to the forum, by the way. I sent you a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 ---------------- On 5/14/2005 10:08:28 AM dkp wrote: I've had three units powering my RF-7s. First a Yamaha 5560 (75wpc?), a B&K AVR 307 (125 wpc) and now a B&K Ref 200.2. At each and every upgrade I can hear a pronounced difference in the speakers, there is just no question about it. I believe one of the differences is the watts-per-channel but the other is the high-current amplification driving the speakers. The difference with the 200 watt B&K separate amplifier is amazing. I often read forum members' posts about no longer needing a subwoofer after upgrading to separates. I was a bit skeptical, but gave them the benefit of the doubt and am now a believer from experience. The low end on the RF-7s is amazing when driven with good amplification. Take a listen for yourself and see what YOU think. David *** EDIT Welcome to the forum, by the way. I sent you a PM. ---------------- What David said. People who have never owned RF-7s usually just look at their specs (focusing on their high sensitivity) and conclude that the speakers are easy to drive. Quite the opposite because of their low impendance and unique 2-way design (doing that with such large drivers). I have heard the difference between three different receivers and three different amps, and it is not a placebo effect. The one poster in that thread also spoke of the preamp solely controlling the overall sound. While I agree that the original poster there probably should try treating his room first (to remove reflections for "brightness"), the amp can negatively impact a sound because a strained amp can distort and sound shrill. Plus, some amps are warmer-sounding than others and others are just neutral. I have owned a variety of classic and new Klipsch speakers. Most have not been that picky about amplification. However, the RF-7s are the pickiest of them all. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxman Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 I demoed the RF-7's using a B&K Ref 50, when I bought them I hooked them up with my then Yamaha Avr (can not recall the model, but it was an el cheapo) and then upgraded to the Rotel Rsp-1066 / RMB-1075 combo. The Yammi stated 75wpc but in real terms it was probably much lower. The Rotel is rated at 125 wpc. The differance between them was night and day. I would love to try the 1090 @ 200wpc or have often thought about a couple other brands offering 200wpc, but have never heard them. Based on my limited experiance I can only say the Rotel made my speakers sound 1000% better than the yami. Chalk that to power/quality/break in whatever you want, but there is no denying the differance. Oh and the B&K they were using was much closer to the Rotel, but the Rotel sounds much more detailed to me than that B&K did, but that might be the differance between in store and in home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 ---------------- On 5/13/2005 11:56:47 PM dog wrote: And here is a quote I found from a different forum...( In reference to the RF-7, RC-7 etc.. home theatre set-up with a pioneer elite receiver) "The speakers you have right now are very efficent. I can not imagine you are taxing the capabilities of your current receiver as it takes proably no more than 5 to 10 watts to drive your Klipsch(s). So an external amp would add nothing that you do not already have. I can certainly understand if it is a case of upgradeitis and having a new toy if that is what you are going through, but any change in sound would be the dreaded placebo effect." ---------------- I beg to differ! I went from a using a Denon AVR3802 to using a B&K Reference 200.7 out-board amp! The difference was very noticable, way more than just "placebo". The clarity and dynamics was greatly improved. The bass was much, much tighter, cleaner, and had more impact and punch. It was basically as though the speakers "just opened right up and let all the music out!" When I had to dismantle my HT to make room for the new TV, it gave me an oppurtunity to do a little bit of A/B test between using the Denon by itself and putting the B&K amp back in. Again, very distinct difference and improvment in the sound going with the B&K. I've had this current setup for a few years now (no major changes on the audio side, although I did replace the old Sharp DX-200 CD player just last month with a Denon DCM-380 5-disk changer, with the Sharp being moved into the bedroom), and to this day, I am still friggan amazed at just how awesome it sounds! A good quality out-board amp will make a significant improvement in your system. It did for mine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted May 14, 2005 Share Posted May 14, 2005 I have used my Pioneer flagship receiver with RF-7s. It does an ok job. Seprate amps do a much better job due to the fact that the minimum impedance is 2.8 ohm and average impedance in the woofer section runs below 4 ohms. Japanses receivers do not perfrom well below 6 ohms. The biggest improvements will come in the bass frequencies and mid-range with a separate amp. Look for an amp that doubles or nearly doubles into 4 ohms and 2 ohms doubles again. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRCRYSTYK Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Good one,... What in the world was that poster thinking? It's true the speakers are very eficient, but it doesn't mean they don't like "Head room". One of the worst things you can do to a driver, is starve it. I run a conservative 200 watts per channel on a full room of FR-7's and surrounds. Decent related gear,..and it sounds great. Put together quality components ahead of the Klipsch, and they will sing, loud amd clear. >>>---> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spkrdctr Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 ---------------- On 5/14/2005 10:34:03 AM cjgeraci wrote: ---------------- On 5/14/2005 10:08:28 AM dkp wrote: I have heard the difference between three different receivers and three different amps, and it is not a placebo effect. Plus, some amps are warmer-sounding than others and others are just neutral. Carl. ---------------- The different amps/recievers make the difference. Usually not the power. BUT, if you were trying to listen to the music very loudly, then yes, you can use some serious head room. Or, put another way, it never hurts to have too much power so you can always err on the side of more power. This is especially true with home theater set ups. A demanding scene on a home theater setup can easily go into hard clipping as most recievers do not have that much power. If you can get an HONEST 150 watts per channel in a home theater rig, you should be all set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Audioholics..........lol...lol...lol...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriton Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 OK, wait a second... I thought "headroom" was the amount of over head if you will between the rated wattage of a speaker (RF-7 for instance being 250 watts) and the wattage of your amp? So you are telling me that a 150 watt or 200 watt amp will produce enough headroom to "open up" the RF-7's? If amperage is what is important, than why do we even talk watts? I just got a pair of RF-7's, and like everyone else, I need a new amp to push these things...I have been looking for something with more than 250 so that I have that illusive headroom, but I don;t need to do that? Would a Sunfire 400~7 be necessarily better than a 200~5 (apart from the obvious more channels, which I wouldn't use anyways) and does this amp have the amps necessary to put out for the RF's, center and the surrounds (all Klipsch) and subwoofer (which I am aware doesn't connect to the amp, but to the pre)?? Man am I confused...I am kind of glad I didn't just drop dime on an overkill amp! AAArrrghghghg Please clear this up! K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Regarding solid state...."I" am thinking the more the merrier and the higher quality the better........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 ---------------- On 5/19/2005 1:02:03 PM Kriton wrote: OK, wait a second... I thought "headroom" was the amount of over head if you will between the rated wattage of a speaker (RF-7 for instance being 250 watts) and the wattage of your amp? So you are telling me that a 150 watt or 200 watt amp will produce enough headroom to "open up" the RF-7's? If amperage is what is important, than why do we even talk watts? I just got a pair of RF-7's, and like everyone else, I need a new amp to push these things...I have been looking for something with more than 250 so that I have that illusive headroom, but I don;t need to do that? Would a Sunfire 400~7 be necessarily better than a 200~5 (apart from the obvious more channels, which I wouldn't use anyways) and does this amp have the amps necessary to put out for the RF's, center and the surrounds (all Klipsch) and subwoofer (which I am aware doesn't connect to the amp, but to the pre)?? Man am I confused...I am kind of glad I didn't just drop dime on an overkill amp! AAArrrghghghg Please clear this up! K ---------------- Proper headroom is having the ability to play at least 10dB louder than the normal listening volume. So let's say you normally listen at 90dB (which is just starting to sound loud), then you will want an amp capable of driving your RF-7's to 100dB, heck 20dB of headroom would mean needing to "only" reach 110dB. At 1 watt, your RF-7's are already putting out 102dB! For every 3dB, double the amplifier power (so 105dB = 2 watts, 108dB = 4 watts....120dB = 64 watts which is the "threshold of hearing"). An amp capable of running a clean 50 watts will be more than enough to power your RF-7's. The trick though to getting these speakers to sound their best is to use an amp capable of high current draw. An amplifier is supposed to be a voltage source, not so much a current source (ironic that we talk in watts). Anyways, the RF-7 has a few very low dips in the impedance which means there is a lot of current flowing at those frequencies...a lot of current means the amp better have a good power supply to be able to maintain the desired voltage to drive the speaker properly. A lot of pro amps (like crown or QSC) have no problem running down into 2 ohms which makes them a good candidate for the RF-7. You just gotta be careful that you find an amp that isn't too noisy (both electrically and the fan noise). The Crown K series would be a great place to start looking, but be prepared to spend a grand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmiles Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I used my RF-7', RC-7, RS-7 (now sold and went RS-5W in wall) with a Yamaha RX-V2200 for a few months then upgraded to Parasound HALO separates. The difference was amazing! Regards, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 I'm one who has also operated my RF7s with different wattage amps. First 70wpc then to 125wpc then to 200 wpc (all Rotel). Each time I upgraded the sound from the 7s got less compressed at high spl. Everything just became "more" effortless. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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