tofu Posted June 9, 2005 Author Share Posted June 9, 2005 i read through everyone's posts. thank you all for trying to help me. don't get me wrong. they're better than the rf-3ii's, but the change is just SO subtle (aside from the bass). as for purchasing heresies instead... i really don't want to go through hauling these suckers again. and i'd feel like everything was a big waste of time if i did so. i'll definitely upgrade the crossovers. i just don't have much cash on hand at the moment. got a ticket from an nyc cop on a power trip, and had to pay for some unexpected plumbing services. as for the university drivers not being an upgrade. i may sound foolish, but i believe the guy when he says they improved the sound. he has loads of feedback and seemed to have sold/bought some pretty high end equipment. besides, the low end isnt the problem here. it's just the midrange not being as amazing as everyone made it seem like. which is odd. although i do hear that capacitor upgrades affect that area the most. as for these speakers being 1980's vintage, i doubt it. they have the metal horns with alnico magnets, and the grilles were the tan (i think it's called tweed?) that i see in a lot of the older speaker models. perhaps the first owner replaced the networks with ALs sometime down the line. oh, and i finally got those grills off. being the idiot that i am, i thought the grill was attached to the moulding. in conclusion, i hope to be able to afford network upgrades in the near future. i hate regretting purchases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted June 9, 2005 Author Share Posted June 9, 2005 well i've positioned them a bit differently. at first i had them paralell with the wall, but now i've angled them somewhat. the improvement is quite evident, but then again, my rf-3's were positioned paralell with the wall as well. for a room this size, 11x11, should i have them right up against the wall? (keeping them angled of course since the sound seems to be improved this way). i suppose the paralell setups only work with larger rooms. my backwall was so close to the speaker (a little under 9 feet) that there was no room for an actual sweet spot. im starting to enjoy these speakers a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy James Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 ---------------- On 6/9/2005 10:40:30 AM tofu wrote: i read through everyone's posts. thank you all for trying to help me. don't get me wrong. they're better than the rf-3ii's, but the change is just SO subtle (aside from the bass). as for purchasing heresies instead... i really don't want to go through hauling these suckers again. and i'd feel like everything was a big waste of time if i did so. i'll definitely upgrade the crossovers. i just don't have much cash on hand at the moment. got a ticket from an nyc cop on a power trip, and had to pay for some unexpected plumbing services. as for the university drivers not being an upgrade. i may sound foolish, but i believe the guy when he says they improved the sound. he has loads of feedback and seemed to have sold/bought some pretty high end equipment. besides, the low end isnt the problem here. it's just the midrange not being as amazing as everyone made it seem like. which is odd. although i do hear that capacitor upgrades affect that area the most. as for these speakers being 1980's vintage, i doubt it. they have the metal horns with alnico magnets, and the grilles were the tan (i think it's called tweed?) that i see in a lot of the older speaker models. perhaps the first owner replaced the networks with ALs sometime down the line. oh, and i finally got those grills off. being the idiot that i am, i thought the grill was attached to the moulding. in conclusion, i hope to be able to afford network upgrades in the near future. i hate regretting purchases. ---------------- Relax. Turn everything off for a day or two. Avoid music systems in general, let all your old references kind of blur a little. I don't know when you can get "you" time, Friday or Saturday evening? Whenever it is that's when you need to relax with a few adult beverages, put on something you're very familiar with and then see how you feel. No installation ever sounded right to me right after I finished it, especially car installs. It's a weird sort of anxiety and fatigue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay L Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 ditch the PC, go buy a cheap cd/dvd player from walktargmart and look on ebay for a decent pre-amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted June 9, 2005 Author Share Posted June 9, 2005 ---------------- On 6/9/2005 11:49:20 AM Jay L wrote: ditch the PC, go buy a cheap cd/dvd player from walktargmart and look on ebay for a decent pre-amp. ---------------- that's a lot easier said than done. not everyone is made of money. i was planning on upgrading my soundcard to an audiophile 192, but cash restrictions delayed that plan. it seems the crossover network upgrade is a higher priority, so i'll be going with that first even though it'll be a bit more expensive. angling the speakers did help quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay L Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 ---------------- On 6/9/2005 11:53:47 AM tofu wrote: it seems the crossover network upgrade is a higher priority, ---------------- unless its actually broken, thats the last thing i would mess with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I thought my Belles sounded ok when I first bought them but I was using barrowed solid state gear. Then I bought tube amps and the sound got better then I bought a tube preamp and the sound got better see where I am going here. I still need a good cdp and to replace my crossovers then I'll be much happier. Each upgrade was a huge leap in sound quality and I can't wait to hear it when I get my last pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwoods Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 ---------------- On 6/8/2005 10:51:50 PM jtice wrote: Sorry, double post. Can't delete it. ---------------- So...you post a 3rd to tell us? You could've edited the 2nd. I try to help when and where I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I agree, hold off on the xover until everything else has been tried. I just picked up a pair of cornwalls and was less than happy with them until they were pulled away from the wall and toed in. Once that was done the mids and bass opened up wonderfully, they were choked to death against the wall. Try placemennt first. Next, there has been quite a bit of discussion on class T amps and how cheep and good sounding they are. Look up the thread in 2ch, you might be able to afford better amplification than you thought. I beleave the price bounced around is under a hundred bucks. That is much less than the xovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdmarsiii Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 ---------------- On 6/9/2005 11:53:47 AM tofu wrote: ---------------- On 6/9/2005 11:49:20 AM Jay L wrote: ditch the PC, go buy a cheap cd/dvd player from walktargmart and look on ebay for a decent pre-amp. ---------------- that's a lot easier said than done. not everyone is made of money. i was planning on upgrading my soundcard to an audiophile 192, but cash restrictions delayed that plan. it seems the crossover network upgrade is a higher priority, so i'll be going with that first even though it'll be a bit more expensive. angling the speakers did help quite a bit. ---------------- Have you considered E-mu? I think the E-mu 0404 is $99 at compusa. Reviews said its the best soundcard under I think $300 on the market. Thats what I'm using with my Heresy's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 nothing wrong w/ a PC for playback .. just how do you think Music is Recorded these days, anyhow .. hope you don't have a Creative Sound blaster, Audigy, etc.. they (creative) all take your sound to 16 bit you need to have an Audiotrack, or Emu card to really be assured of decent playback but, hay, anyways .. the title of the thread was Improvement over RF's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted June 9, 2005 Author Share Posted June 9, 2005 ---------------- On 6/9/2005 12:54:11 PM Cal Blacksmith wrote: I agree, hold off on the xover until everything else has been tried. I just picked up a pair of cornwalls and was less than happy with them until they were pulled away from the wall and toed in. Once that was done the mids and bass opened up wonderfully, they were choked to death against the wall. Try placemennt first. Next, there has been quite a bit of discussion on class T amps and how cheep and good sounding they are. Look up the thread in 2ch, you might be able to afford better amplification than you thought. I beleave the price bounced around is under a hundred bucks. That is much less than the xovers. ---------------- so, i should hold off on the x-over and worry about my source first? it's cheaper that way for me anyhow, but these AL's are really terrible according to other posters. i have nothing to compare it to, so i'm just going to have to trust word of mouth. my amp is fine. i don't plan on upgrading my mc250 until everything else is up to spec. i'd much rather get a tube pre before i replace my mcintosh. as for the emu 0404, people on the head-fi forums claim it's very plastic and artificial sounding. the audiophile 192 is supposed to be more natural and warm. with that being said, i think the latter would mate much better with these speakers. again, thanks for the further help, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 ---------------- On 6/9/2005 12:54:11 PM Cal Blacksmith wrote: I agree, hold off on the xover until everything else has been tried. I just picked up a pair of cornwalls and was less than happy with them until they were pulled away from the wall and toed in. Once that was done the mids and bass opened up wonderfully, they were choked to death against the wall. Try placemennt first. Next, there has been quite a bit of discussion on class T amps and how cheep and good sounding they are. Look up the thread in 2ch, you might be able to afford better amplification than you thought. I beleave the price bounced around is under a hundred bucks. That is much less than the xovers. ---------------- I'd have to fall into the camp that disagrees with you on this one. I've heard some pairs of speakers from the big three (K-horn, LaScalas, and Belles)with older crossovers that sounded ok and other pairs from the big three with older crossovers that sounded pretty bad - and I think worn-out networks were the primary difference in sound. In my experience, replacing older networks on the big three has a much more dramatic effect on the speaker's overall sound as opposed to upgrading networks on older Cornwalls because of the differences in the networks between the respective speakers. I am not an engineer nor do I know of the technical differences between the two types of crossovers - that is just based on what I heard with my ears. When I acquired my mid-70s Belles, I was also a bit disappointed because they did not seem to blow away my modded RF-7s. During my first listening session (comparing the Belles to the RF-7s), the Belles' seller agreed. On the other hand, my 60's Vertical Cornwall performed pretty nicely out of the box with its older network. Then, I had Dean build new crossovers for both my Belles and my Cornwall. The Cornwall improved some, but the improvement for my Belles (with DHAxovers) was a night and day difference, in detail, frequency extension, yes, even bass response. Now, my Belles are in a different league from my RF-7s. BTW, I've also owned RF3iis. If your LaScalas sound like they should, you should notice a huge difference. I would try freshened or new crossovers first. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Bob Crites has an interesting theory about what you are saying that I now subscribe to as well. The networks of the Klipschorn, Belle Klipsch, and LaScala are all externally mounted. The networks are constantly exposed to changes in temperature, humidity levels, and dust/dirt. Often, the speakers are placed along the outside walls of a home, where changes in temperature and moisture are even more extreme. It's also not uncommon to see the sun beaming down on the back of the speakers through a window. If you look at most of the old A's and AA's, they look like they've been through Hell and back. However, open up an old Cornwall, and the networks look like they were just installed yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Yup. Visually, that is what I found. The original network in my older Cornwall looked beautiful - with respect to its appearance. My Belles, on the other hand, well.....they did not. Dean, when you get a second - in the next couple of days.....call me on my cell: (314) 691-0185. My changes are going to be happening, and I need to talk before they do. Thanks. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Cal sez: "I just picked up a pair of cornwalls and was less than happy with them until they were pulled away from the wall and toed in. Once that was done the mids and bass opened up wonderfully, they were choked to death against the wall. Try placemennt first" you have learned well my son, soon you will be able to walk across the rice paper without breaking it... Oh yes, excellent points made by cjgeraci, and Dean/BEC. I never thought of the protection the cabinet gives the Cornwall network. Maybe I should upgrade my AL LS before my Corn networks then? Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I disagree. I have only listened briefly to an old PC CD through headphones, then through a receiver and big ole horns. It did not have a quality sound card. The sound quality is simply not there, even when the music file originates from a CD. I say invest $40 in a CD player and $50 in a vintage harmon kardon twin powered 430 receiver. Wonderful combination of big ole horns for the money. Beats many expensive receivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfz28 Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 First I would get a cd player instead of the computer for a sound source. Second try the 8 ohm taps on the mac, I am almost sure the the La scalas are 8 ohms if I remember right. Dont know if this will help the sound but worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Garbage in, garbage out. That's computers (and Klipsch speakers) for you! They are both relentlessly precise. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted June 9, 2005 Author Share Posted June 9, 2005 while we're on the topic of crossovers, where can i acquire the autotransformers for the universal ALK schematic? i was pricing everything out and it seems like it will be under $200 if i decide to go the DIY route, unless of course these autotransformers are extremely expensive. i've never done any electronic work before, but i may as well start somewhere. i definitely can't afford his, and i know i wouldn't be as happy knowing theres something better if i go with a rebuild of my current ALs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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