jbsl Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Try what you can afford first and then try other things later. Change the crossover, get a cd or dvd player and stop using your comp's player, Mark from Juicy Music has a new $600 tube preamp called the Merlin that looks really interesting, and you already have a Mac for a power amp. I bought a pair of 2004 La Scalas and I did not think they sounded much better than my KLF 20s. I bought a tube amp and then a SS preamp and a new CD player and the sound really went to the next level. Another problem is my room is 15 X 15 and these speakers sound great to a certain sound level(a little louder than people talking) and then they overpower my room. KHorns, La Scalas, Belles, and probably RF-7s all need very good equipment to run them to get the best sound from the speakers. Once you get the crossovers replaced if that does not help then figure out what you could afford for a tube preamp and a good cd or dvd player and post a new topic asking for suggestions on what gear to buy. If the crossovers don't work and you cannot afford better gear, used or new then I would sell the La Scalas. There are so many things you have to do to get the best sound out of these speakers that if you cannot do it then they will not sound very good. The description of the sound by these speakers by other forum members is usually due to quality equipment. If I would have known how much money it has taken to upgrade my system to get the sound I wanted from my La Scalas I'm not sure I would have bought the La Scalas. They sound great but I was not expecting to have to upgrade my whole system. Good luck with it!! Xman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 First off I just want to say that computers are a great source for audio...90% of the music we all listen to is made on computers (the same ones we got at home, using the same available DACs...for the most part). The most important aspect of pc based audio is to make sure you have a high quality DAC. The reason more expensive cd players sound better is because they use better DACs. For $200 there are plenty of options available that will infinetly improve your sound. For the record, what exactly is your setup currently? What kind of music are you listening to? MP3's or CDs or something else? That said, if you don't get your source right then upgrading the crossovers isn't going to do you much good. I'm 99% certain that your situation is such that improving the source is going to have a bigger impact than improving the crossovers. Btw, that university driver could quite possibly be throwing that crossover off as well (crossover points are dependant on the specific impedances of the driver...throwing in a new driver WILL change the crossover point). Though the university is in the "bass bin", it doesn't mean that it isn't contributing to the "mids" of the speaker. In fact, I believe the crossover is around 400Hz which means that woofer is getting up into midrange frequencies and can certainly affect the "midrange" ...not just the bass. Btw, why do you claim that the lascalas sound slightly better? Is it because they're "supposed" to sound better? Seriously, if you like the RF-3II's more then stick to your guns and go with what sounds best to you. I'm going to borrow the term that I've heard a few times, but the "synergy" of your system is really what you're after. By introducing the lascalas, it seems you've found that they don't "synergize" with the rest of your equipment/source material/etc etc. If you're on a tight budget then you're going to have a hard time bringing your overall system to a level that just starts to make the lascalas sound good. The RF-3II's really are a great sounding speaker and I could totally see someone liking them more than oldschool heritage stuff...especially when working on a tight budget in a less than ideal room such as yours (11x11 really makes it hard for anything to sound good). For what it's worth, if I personally had to choose between 2 speakers and live with them the rest of my life, I think I would probably go with the reference series (eeeek, i know many will disagree with that one) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I once had the opportunity to audition the LS side by side with the RF7s in a dealers studio with the same amp powering each setup. The LS were setup in the corners and the 7's were on either side of the monitor screen in the center of the room. Was there a difference? Yes, of course there was a difference. Was the LS better?, no, just different. I think the originator of this thread is experiencing the same thing. Due to all the hype on heritage he expected something a quantum leap better than his RFs, and what he got was something a little better but mostly just something different. JR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 ---------------- On 6/9/2005 3:49:43 PM colterphoto1 wrote: Cal sez: "I just picked up a pair of cornwalls and was less than happy with them until they were pulled away from the wall and toed in. Once that was done the mids and bass opened up wonderfully, they were choked to death against the wall. Try placemennt first" you have learned well my son, soon you will be able to walk across the rice paper without breaking it... Oh yes, excellent points made by cjgeraci, and Dean/BEC. I never thought of the protection the cabinet gives the Cornwall network. Maybe I should upgrade my AL LS before my Corn networks then? Michael ---------------- LOL!!! At my size that rice paper better be glued to plywood! I stand corrected on the Xovers, all I have ever known is 1) source 2) source 3) source 4) apmlification 5) speaker placement (perhaps this shoud be #4 ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan krajewski Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 You are putting a set of speakers that can fill a gymnasium into an 11X11 room. The physics/acoustics of this situation has to be all wrong. ( i.e. the sweet spot is in the next room) Is there an engineer in the house? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 ---------------- On 6/8/2005 10:51:47 PM jtice wrote: A square room is probably the worst and 11' is small. Also try them out from the corners about 4-5'. ---------------- In an 11-foot square room, sounds like you might be advocating stacking them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1BigBore Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 OK. This is most likely too little, too late, but I found and bought this receiver for use with my La Scalas while I am working with / on them. It is a real clean low cost receiver. For me it powers my LS with such authority that my wife has come into the garage with an appeal from my kids to turn it down. (I love it!) http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4018707 I don't know how to make this into an active link, so you will have to screen-scrape and paste it into the browser. It worked for me, perhaps such a thing will work for you. enjoy 1BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 My La Scala sounded good along an 11' wall with me sitting about the same distance away but with 20 more feet behind me. They were square in the corners, then later I toed them in. Adding a sub openned up the soundstage quite a bit (but you have a sub already). They only sounded great after I separated them out 18' toed-in at 45 degree with me sitting on the other side of the 11'. But we're talking imaging and soundstage rather than tone and timbre. 11'x11' is pretty small... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 ---------------- On 6/10/2005 7:30:56 AM JewishAMerPrince wrote: I once had the opportunity to audition the LS side by side with the RF7s in a dealers studio with the same amp powering each setup. The LS were setup in the corners and the 7's were on either side of the monitor screen in the center of the room. Was there a difference? Yes, of course there was a difference. Was the LS better?, no, just different. I think the originator of this thread is experiencing the same thing. Due to all the hype on heritage he expected something a quantum leap better than his RFs, and what he got was something a little better but mostly just something different. JR ---------------- i think you've hit it on the nose here. the speakers are growing on me. i'm not as dissapointed as i was at first, but yes you are correct. i was expecting leaps and bounds of improvements, but i suppose they just cannot be had with my equipment/funding. eventually i'll have both source and crossover upgraded. i expect them to improve the sound, but i'll no longer get my hopes up so high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 ---------------- On 6/10/2005 1:55:51 AM DrWho wrote: Btw, why do you claim that the lascalas sound slightly better? Is it because they're "supposed" to sound better? Seriously, if you like the RF-3II's more then stick to your guns and go with what sounds best to you. I'm going to borrow the term that I've heard a few times, but the "synergy" of your system is really what you're after. By introducing the lascalas, it seems you've found that they don't "synergize" with the rest of your equipment/source material/etc etc. If you're on a tight budget then you're going to have a hard time bringing your overall system to a level that just starts to make the lascalas sound good. The RF-3II's really are a great sounding speaker and I could totally see someone liking them more than oldschool heritage stuff...especially when working on a tight budget in a less than ideal room such as yours (11x11 really makes it hard for anything to sound good). For what it's worth, if I personally had to choose between 2 speakers and live with them the rest of my life, I think I would probably go with the reference series (eeeek, i know many will disagree with that one) ---------------- well for one the la scalas sound "bigger" especially at higher volumes. i can't seem to turn them up over 1 watt without my room acoustics tainting the sound horribly. i should invest in some room treatments as well. mostly, i like the bass sound that the scalas produce. the horn loaded bass bin is what seems to be affecting the sound the most. i must have a hardcore frequency hump (right where the scalas begin to noticably roll off) in my room, because i just dont see how people can be claiming these speakers lack bass. i really do not need to turn on my sub to enjoy the music. perhaps the university driver that everyone seems to be knocking can be credited for this. i mostly listen to mp3's and flacs. flacs sounded a lot better. i can really hear the compression differences between 192kbit and 320kbit mp3's with these speakers. it wasn't as easy to tell with my rf3's. unless of course this is all placebo. i wont be selling my la scalas. i wanted an upgrade and that is what i got. not as much of an upgrade as i expected, but it's still an upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 My best advice, take your time, improve what you can afford. Source units, amplifiaction, Pre/pro, networks, driver, romm treatments,...whatever you can afford when you can afford it. The AL network is not bad it just sounds very harsh whe compared to other options. Yours may be very old, out of spec and needs updating at a minimum or upgrading better yet. IMO the ALK is the way to go. These things will last you a life time. Plus remember all of us Heritage types tend to have a nervous itch to tweak our systems. Enjoy your La Scala's I beleive they will in time win you over. I've had mine for over 20 years and you will have to pry them from my cold dead hands when I go. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 ---------------- On 6/10/2005 1:30:14 PM tofu wrote: i mostly listen to mp3's and flacs. flacs sounded a lot better. i can really hear the compression differences between 192kbit and 320kbit mp3's with these speakers. it wasn't as easy to tell with my rf3's. unless of course this is all placebo. ---------------- Well there's your problem...mp3's just sound bad. The higher bitrate is certainly not a placebo either. Is flac one of the lossless compressions? I don't remember, but I do know there are compression formats that aren't lossless, and therefore don't affect the sound too much. To be honest, when listening to an MP3 it doesn't usually sound bad until you play the same song straight from the CD (or in a .wav format). Once you get them side by side the difference is night and day and you'll never go back (so don't try this unless you got a lot of discspace) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 The thing that got me about the Khorn bass was its accuracy compared to live string bass. No is not the electric boom of rock concerts, for that I have to max my sub, but it is very much like a live string bass, which is what I wanted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Yes, Dr. ---FLAC is lossless ... Vbr, taking up half the Byte's ain't bad , either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Tofu ... your at the more Different, than more Better point here, i say ... that, and the :Scala's have Plenty of Bass, it's just not just much below, say 60 Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Saaay, Tofu ... whatcha listen to ..?? most everything i listen to, is 90% live music too ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 1. keep the speakers 2. computer for source could create moucho jitter; low value digital playback is very unfriendly with horn speakers 3. no preamp??? 4. room is too small; you must dampen the reflections Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 ---------------- On 6/10/2005 5:45:54 PM bsafirebird1969 wrote: Saaay, Tofu ... whatcha listen to ..?? most everything i listen to, is 90% live music too ... ---------------- i listen to mostly disco, soul, classic rock, and occasionally some modern music (90s music by artists such as sting) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 ---------------- On 6/10/2005 5:59:20 PM Audio Flynn wrote: 2. computer for source could create moucho jitter; low value digital playback is very unfriendly with horn speakers ---------------- Low value cd players, preamps and amps are very "unfriendly" too. What about pc's makes them inheritantly worse for the price? And why have a preamp when you don't need one? Less devices in the signal chain = less chances for distortion. Btw, I'm not trying to be rude (I don't mean to be if it comes across that way). I just would love to know why so many people keep bashing computers as a source. Is it because a lot of people have had bad experiences with computers and then decide that every computer will sound the same way? I'd get reamed if I heard a bad LP rig and then claimed that the entire medium sucked. For any price range I think I could find a computer based system that could outperform a "normal" audio system. It'd also be great if people would list the computer systems that sucked that way the rest of us know what to avoid. I personally have heard my fair share of crappy and good systems and I must say the really good ones have been better than anything else I've heard. Thanks for the tip about the FLAC compression...I think I can take your word for it. One thing about computers is that the software is also as important as the hardware. Normal windows computers automatically convert everything to a 48kHz sampling rate and then back down to watever the original source was...it's a process that really ruins any audio quality and therefore it is important to use software that bypasses this. Going the freeware route Foobar 2000 is the way to go. Better hardware uses ASIO, which is also what most all the hardware in computer based recording studios are using. Heck, even some of the creative sound cards have ASIO capabilities, which I feel makes them sound infinetly better (creative isn't even that high quality of a card either). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Saaay, Doc .. you Do have the ASIO plug-in for Foobar ....right.? i use an ART DI/ O for my DAC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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