There is NO 20 watt per channel minimum for Klipsch speakers

[Allan Songer]

Gotta admit Paul is pretty funny trolling with comments about Joe Henderson being a player "for the cocktail crowd" or jazz being a "filler" music in barrooms. But I am afraid he might actually MEAN these things and that he is NOT trolling for an angry response! If so he really IS an ignorant fool and all this time I thought he just liked annyoing people who are actually HAPPY! In other words, from now on we all have to be very careful when we read Paul's posts--he really MIGHT be as dumb as he sounds!

[jazman]

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On 8/8/2005 3:15:25 PM Parrot wrote:

Dr. Who,

More good points. A lot of jazz is meant to be heard at low levels because that is how it is played, as background filler music at a club. You're supposed to be able to carry on a conversation while the jazz is playing. It's meant just to cover up kitchen noises and the air-conditioning unit and so on.

This doesn't apply if you go to an actual concert with tickets purchased in advance and everybody seated facing the stage. Then you're there specifically for the music and not just ambience.

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How ignorant can one person be? This is one of the most ignorant concepts of Jazz music I have ever heard. Please re-read the topic of this post. "There is no 20 watt per channel minimum for Klipsch speakers."

Since you know nothing about Jazz, please spare us your ignorant statements. Just another smoke screen.

Klipsch out.

[Colin]

Now guys there are people who take the most efficient, sensitive spkr design in production and run it with (gasp) solid-state amplifiers! They dont hear what is obvious to the rest of us - they want concert-like rock n roll slam

Parrot, please specify your system: amps, subs, room size, most tastes, preferred volume level, etc. This will give posters more of the information they need to fight back!

just kidding

[seti]

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On 8/8/2005 2:59:25 PM Parrot wrote:

I don't know, Mike, are those amps taken seriously by anyone except the couple dozen people in the SET group at Audio Asylum? I think the Klipsch Forum is a great place to discuss SET, considering you have to use high efficiency speakers to have any hope at all with low-powered amplification.

Maybe you're looking for someone to simply accept anything claimed without challenging it? If that's the case, you should visit the I Want To Feel Good About Myself forum.

Anarchist: Henderson was a sax player from Ohio, died a few years ago. Kind of a light-hearted cocktail-crowd pleaser. You can hear samples of his recordings on amazon.com and you'll get an idea of whether you'd like his stuff or not.

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I don't need a user group to feel good about myself nor do I have to insult other peoples opinion or taste to feel good about myself. These threads do not yeild anything new or productive and are nothing but a pissing contest that degrades to personal attacks and insults. If we all liked the same thing in this world it would truly be a dull world. To each his own.

[spaaaz]

I dont know what all the fuss is about,I have had just about everything you could imagine hooked to these corns from 150 watt ss to 3.5 watt set amps.they all have their strenghts and weaknesses,at the moment I am listening to a pair of modified 22 watt asl fox set monos and they are very nice indeed.I may just have to purchase these.I for one can sit and listen to set or pp and enjoy each equally.its all about the music after all.ok back to spinnin some vinyl.Lake is on at the moment maybe some irobot next followed by Bags Groove,comon guys just enjoy the music and chill a bit.peace

[Parrot]

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On 8/8/2005 3:19:07 PM triode wrote:

I've got a better idea Parrot. - Why don't you just stay out of any SET threads.

As soon as Amy wakes up and realizes that Parrot is the common element in every contentious thread, she'll ban him and this will be a better forum.

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LOL! Of course this is what anyone who is afraid of the truth would want, to be able to say anything, no matter how ridiculous, and expect not to be challenged on it. The first instinct of SET fans is to call names; you can easily see it in this thread. Then it's everyone else is unsophisticated and dumb. Then it's close down any discussion because the nasty facts of physics get in the way.

[Allan Songer]

I could give a damn about this whole SET debate, but when you start denegrating great American musicians like Joe Henderson it just shows all of us how ignorant you are. Either that or you're itching to get someone pissed off. Either way, it shows all of us just the sort of bile-filled emotional midget you really are.

[mike stehr]

I agree.

[Parrot]

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On 8/8/2005 3:43:01 PM Allan Songer wrote:

I could give a damn about this whole SET debate, but when you start denegrating great American musicians like Joe Henderson it just shows all of us how ignorant you are. Either that or you're itching to get someone pissed off. Either way, it shows all of us just the sort of bile-filled emotional midget you really are.

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Of course you don't care about SET. You're just here because I'm here and you get your jollies by insulting me. You're taking the SET side simply because it's the opposite side. You just can't handle it that most people are throughly bored by jazz. It's not enough for you that *I* recommended listening to Henderson. It's only sufficient, I guess, if everyone in the world offers unreserved adulation for him. LOL, not going to happen, Allan.

Confidential to Ben: Hurry up and get in here to help out Allan, will ya?

[TommyK]

Anarchist,

where you at?

I am in North Jersey. I have a pair of Bottlehead 2a3 and pair of 300B SETS for you to listen to if you want to come over. The speakers are Belles.

The system is currently running a MC6200. But it is easy enough to swap ICs! We could round out the session witha ppEl34 as well.

Peace,

TommyK

[formica]

Chest POUNDING bass with 3.5W? Seriously? Does that mean Hoffman's Iron Law was incorrect? You know how much money i could have saved knowing that...

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On 8/8/2005 3:27:24 PM DrWho wrote:

you guys really need to meet parrot in person and then you'll get a whole new perspective on his comments. He use to annoy me, but after meeting him I find all his posts hilarious (which is what he always intends).

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I've never met paulie in person... but I do find the replies and furry caused by his seemingly benign posts pretty amusing.

Some people have to lighten up and smile a little...

Rob

[Allan Songer]

Paul-

I handle the fact that most people are bored by jazz much in the same way I handle the fact that most people have never read William Carlos Williams or Ezra Pound . Most people lack the intellectual strength and/or curiosity to grasp what jazz offers. I have tried to lead a few along that journey and have had some modest success even here on the Klipsch board, but you are lost and about that I feel genuinely sorry.

[sunnysal]

I always get a laugh out of these exchanges, I am sure I have never seen PWK suggest 20watts minimum. he did suggest 100watt maximum. It seems to me PWK thought high powered amplifiers were BS, using many derrogatory names for them throughout the DFH...after reviewing some DFH articles I see many quotes from PWK where he suggests less than 20 watts, in fact, is just fine:

DFH volume 7, no. 5 "blown tweeters"

"for many years this writer used a 10 watt brook amplifier, and demonstrated sound pressure levels from very low to ´ear splitting´"

DFH volume 13, no.1 "fuses for loudspeakers"

"if 120 db spl isn´t enough, trying attending a concert, then go home and find that 1/4 watt comes close to concert hall level!"..."we used to demonstrate before large audiences in half-million cubic foot rooms with a pair of 25 watt amplifiers"

DFH volume 13, no.2 "speaker destruction"

"I am going to point out that as amplifier power increases, the degree to which the speaker output reporduces the original sound, the sound quality, decreases"..."in a typical living room or small theater, our present all-horn systems ofer concert-hall levels with a mere 10 watts of peak power"

DFH volume 14, no.2 "power ratings"

"accept the figure that 115db sound pressure level at the listener´s ear will be as loud as what you hear at a live concert. In a typical 4000 cubic foot listening room, assuming this to be a 2-channel stereo, 20 peak watts or 10 watts average sine wave power rating per side is required"

DFH volume 16, no.1 "amplifier rating to drive klipsch speakers"

"amplifiers of surprisingly low power ratings can be used in most situations particularly for the highly efficient all-horns systems (klipschorns, belle klipsch and la scala). As an example of table usage, a pair of klipschorns driven by a mere 10 watts per channel amplifier will generate a very loud level of 110db spl (120db peaks) in the typical listening room before clipping."

there was a table included that showed to get 120db spl (130 peaks!) requires only 32 watts per channel...that is as high as anyone would need, no?

So...I think it disingenuous to claim PWK claimed a 20 watt minimum, in fact he seemed consistantly worried about the trend from 10 watt tube (brook 2A3 PP) amps to high powered SS amps, pointing out 100 watt amps for derision.

I say, whatever floats your boat in your room, with your music is great!

PWK seemed to like (and was proud to demonstrate) what low power amps could do with his babies. To deride others who enjoy music with less than 20 watts IMHO is foolish. It seems PWK would agree.

Regards, Tony

[anarchist]

Hi Tommy,

Thanks for the offer man; unfortunately, I am in central Kentucky. There are a few others here who now have Klipschorns, Belles, or Lascalas so hopefully one of them will make such an offer.

I had thought about building a set of those bottleheads. Gives me something to do and then I would know SET too... how do you like them?

PS> Thanks Parrot - Jeez, I can't EVER remember saying that - I did go out and listen to the Joe Henderson (couldn't find samples on Amazon) ultimately on Yahoo. Aside from it would only be fair to listen to an entire album, I have no further comment.

[Parrot]

Yes, Sunnysal, we can either believe you or our lying eyes:

[meuge]

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On 8/8/2005 3:56:34 PM Allan Songer wrote:

Paul-

I handle the fact that most people are bored by jazz much in the same way I handle the fact that most people have never read William Carlos Williams or Ezra Pound . Most people lack the intellectual strength and/or curiosity to grasp what jazz offers. I have tried to lead a few along that journey and have had some modest success even here on the Klipsch board, but you are lost and about that I feel genuinely sorry.

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Allan, I have nothing invested in this debate, but I was reading with curiosity, and this post of yours struck me as sounding extremely arrogant.

I mean you're literally saying that people who don't read Ezra Pound and don't listen to jazz are significantly inferior to yourself, in terms of intellectual capacity.

[BUDA]

after so many months of dormacy is this the heightest level that can be ATAINED?

WHERE IS KELLY?

[TBrennan]

I'm running three horn hi-fis; one with conventional SS, one with a Tri-Path and one with about 12 wpc tubes. So I've no axe to grind with regards to amps.

Now if one wants the ultimate in volume there's no doubt that one needs big power, years ago I used all the power of my 200 wpc Dynaco 400 at times when playing Mountain and Rush and the Ramones and such through my LaScalas.

However one can get very satisfying dynamics and volume with horn speakers with low powered amps. And if a certain low powered amp has the tonal and spacial qualites you prefer then you'll probably get more enjoyment from your hi-fi using such an amp than one that gets louder but doesn't sound as good to you.

Note too that if ultimate volume is what you want you shouldn't be using Klipsch home speakers anyway. The 1" throat mid driver and the constricted horn throat of Heritage type Klipsch speakers make them a good candidiate for pretty loud but a poor one for ultimate loudness. For that one should be using a large format compression driver which will have much lower distortion at high volumes than the Heritages.

The best Klipsches for such use are the pro ones that use 2" throat drivers. But none of you guys seem to want to consider or talk about the pro stuff. Once you hear the big drivers played really loud you probably will never be content with small format played really loud. But at lower levels small format is very nice.

[sunnysal]

PWK penned personally the Dope From Hope articles I quoted, they are thus his own words and opinions.

Who knows who penned these ads, some german marketing putz I expect. Your eyes are pathetically poor it seems.

I had been holding out judgement on the parrot but know I understand...sad really...I bet he drives a big car too...

regards, tony

BTW if you like "pictures" more than words I can scan the DFH articles so they are easier for you to digest.

[seti]

I posted a comment in a thread a while back that I was unlearned in the ways of jazz and shapeshifter was kind enough to ship me 5 cds to sample what he considered great jazz. I really enjoyed these cds and explored other jazz artist like Thelonious Monk because of him. While I did like this jazz I was looking for something else and have since found african jazz more to my liking. The artist Fela Kuti is more to my liking with 10 - 20 minute roller coaster jams that were just irresistable. I believe there is music for everyone in every genre of music just give it a try you never know what you'll find.