JTA Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 After getting sidetracked restoring a pair of Decorator Khorns that I have had in storage for quite sometime, I opted to pick up a new set from my dealer which have a few demo hours on them. I set them up them up this evening. While they certainly look great, as the pair I got is finished in Mahogany, their sound is really not up to par with their appearance. They are placed flush in the corners along an 18' wall and the listening position is roughly 16' back from that wall, slightly behind direct center of the horns. The floor is carpeted with thick carpet, there are two decent sized couches in the room and one wall has a thick curtain which sits over a sliding glass door. They are being powered by a new pair of McIntosh MC501s connected to a McIntosh MX135 pre/pro. The source is a McIntosh MVP861. All of these components are connected with Kimber KCTG XLR cables and the speaker cable is Kimber BiFocal XLs. Initially upon playing these, the sound from the speakers was extremely bright, the midrange horns were blarring and the bass was a bit lacking (less than the Cornwalls they replaced). On some recordings they are almost unlistenable at moderate listening levels. As a test I placed fabric over the horns and it seemed to tame them quite a bit, but of course a lot of the detail was lost. Reluctantly, after that, I made some tone adjustments turning the treble down a few dbs and the bass up a bit. That certainly helped but I have always taken comfort in leaving the EQ flat as I feel it offers the purest undistorted sound. Though improved with the EQ adjustments, they still have that PA speaker bright, unmusical sound. The Cornwalls were not this extreme in their sound, but then again their drivers were quite a bit lower and out of ear level, where as the Khorn's drivers are closer to ear level. They look great and they certainly were a task getting them set up on my own due to their size, but is there anything I can do to tone these speakers down or is this simply the nature of the beast? Perhaps I would be better suited with another type of speaker. I could easily return these, so I am not worried about that.... well maybe about my back Any help would be greatly appreciated. I will take some pictures of the setup tomorrow for those that want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwop Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 What I'm curious about is what type of xover these use and additionally what program material, there are a lot of recordings out there that are, sadly, very 'hot' sounding on a very dynamic speaker such as the big horns. Unfortunately, I'm not acquainted with the sonics of the Mac gear you are using but I'm sure its fairly 'neutral'. I'm sure others here have opinions/suggestions for you......With the mahogany they must be aesthetically gorgeous! RJP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 What I'm curious about is what type of xover these use and additionally what program material, there are a lot of recordings out there that are, sadly, very 'hot' sounding on a very dynamic speaker such as the big horns. Unfortunately, I'm not acquainted with the sonics of the Mac gear you are using but I'm sure its fairly 'neutral'. I'm sure others here have opinions/suggestions for you......With the mahogany they must be aesthetically gorgeous! RJP The crossovers are the new AK-4s which apparently are ideal for solid state amplification. The program material ranges from Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon to Rush to various Telarc titles including soundtracks and Overature 1812. I also threw in some more modern stuff like Radiohead, Godsmack and Trust Company which frankly sounded like finger nails on a chalk board with these speakers. I probably played about 15 seperate CDs on these speakers covering a pretty broad range of music and then a bunch of titles off of my MS300 music server. Needless to say, I tried just about everything on them. The McIntosh stuff is extremely neutral and accurate with tremendous power for the low end. I stayed away from Krell because they tend to favor a bit on the bright side. They do look wonderful in the mahogany finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Klipschorns shouldn't sound like that. They may be revealing of less than ideal recordings, but by and large, the Klipschorn should sound big, dynamic, with a rich midrange and extended, but not overpowering bass. But I guess any speaker can sound bad if not properly setup, or there are room interaction problems, or the is a source/amplifer/speaker mismatch. Looking at your system, ther doesn't appear to be any reason why there should be any system incompatibility. How many hours have your Klipschorns had? They may not be as run in as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 The AK-4 is a very smooth crossover-driver system, and should sound fine. Several on the forum have it, and have no complaints. Edwinr may have a point about them not being broken in yet. It took mine about 40-50 hrs. for the bass to fill in and the initial brightness to fade away. If the wire is new, it has to break in, too. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Since you didnt get these new out of box you need to make sure the phase and other wiring on the crossover is still correct.Are they sealed to the corners with seal matrial on the tailboards?Do you have another reciever or amp to try?Just some ideas im sure there will be more. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 What Ricktate said. Yes, something is definitely wrong. I know the AK-4 Klipschorn well, and that's not what it sounds like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intotubes Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 If the wire is new, it has to break in, too. ?????? Please..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Surely you have quite a bit of excellent investment there. DEANG kows the K Horns very well. A MAC guy needs to chime in here. I know little to none about MACs and zero about MAC DVD player. Wild idea would be to put a tube buffer in after the DVD player and run the analog pass through only from the pre / pro for music. Great gear but may take some time for burn in and a little tweaking synergy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I don't want to sound stupid or anything but are the bass bins connected after moving them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 how is the clap test in the room? sharp? how does the FR measure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Think about it -- he's already familiar with the Klipsch "horn" sound since he has Cornwalls. Whatever he is hearing over there sounds pretty far removed from he's used to hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I don't want to sound stupid or anything but are the bass bins connected after moving them? Not stupid at all. My guess is the same, that the bass bins are not connected, because something has to be seriously hooked up wrong (maybe the crossover connections?) for it to sound like that. Lack of a tight tailboard seal could not possibly account for this description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Since the guy has had great luck with Cornwall's already I think his equipment is not in question. I think a check of all crossiver connection's and polarity is in order like others have mentioned. I bet he finds a problem some where in those connection's. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I could use a number of words/phrases to describe the MAC sound...bright is not one of them. Mac's are very smooth, neutral and detailed. IMO some of the best sounding solid state gear you can get. Khorns should not even come close to sounding bright. I agree check the bass bins. But if they were not hooked up it should be so obvious in the absence of bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Since the AK-4 Xover is on the inside of the bass bin door, he'll have to remove it to check the woofer connection -- try not to let the door drop when you remove the last screw. Before looking inside, check the outside of the door to make sure that the pair of jumper wires is in place between "IN" and "HF IN," and that, in all external connections, the red always goes to red and black goes to black. Then, you might look inside to make sure the red-marked wire from the Xover to the woofer goes to the "+" mark or red spot on the woofer's positive tab. The Cornwall has a punchy bass, while some feel the K-horn bass is not as full by comparison (there was a long thread on this about a year or two ago). Plus, the bass won't come in on AK-4s until after about 40 hrs. or so break-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I would agree... Something not quite right. Make sure all your connections are correct as well. I have the new AK4's in what used to be ak-2's in my K horns.. It was a HUGE jump, and all in the right direction too IMO. Maybe a solder inside did not quite take as well? I am insanely jealous over your Mac gear. I am almost drooling at that posibility in a HT too! The newer tweeters may reveal more, but a little less of the mids in that new AK-4 network. Add solid lows and this SHOULD be what your hearing. I do in mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTA Posted September 23, 2005 Author Share Posted September 23, 2005 Everything is setup correctly; wires in phase, all drivers connected, bins sealed to the corners. These speakers have at least 25 hrs on them. I did the clap test, lol, and with the exception to the entrance area to the room there is no real echo. The room could perhaps benefit from perhaps a little more dampening, but regardless, the speakers should not be this bright. For the record, I do find the Cornwalls to be bright at times, but not to this degree, whether that is a factor that the horns are vertically mounted and they are closer to the floor than the horns of the Khorns I do not know. I really have no intention of trying other equipment, as I would not even give it a second thought getting rid of these speakers before I would give up my Mac gear, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 The perfect room for AK-4 Klipschorns and SS -- it should sound incredible. I would take Larry's advice -- don't assume anything -- something is not right. Did you check the speaker wires connected to the amps? It only takes one pair to be flipped to net a horrible sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 It certainly looks incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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