Belle Klipsch

[johnjhazel]

I keep reading...do they have bass or not ? I bought a brand new pair from the factory in 1996. Bass...zip, nada,none. My KG4's blew them away in that department. What did they do well ? Dynamics, large vocal groups or instuments did not sound canned or homoginized. Do I love them, yes. Do I hate the lack of bass...yes. Go for broke and buy the Klipschorns !

[Al Klappenberger]

Belles have all the bass they need and it's CLEAN bass. The bass just doesn't extend below about 50 Hz. If you really need your teeth to rattle, buy a good sub! One the other extreme, try putting a new squawker horn and a fancy tweeter in a a KGanything! It's very easy to upgrade a Belle and then back down to factory speck if you'r not hppy with what you did.

Al K.

[Duke Spinner]

this essentially, is the LaScala argument all over again ...

LS, Belle were designed to reproduce P.A., and music , respectively ....

they Do Not satisfactorly reproduce the lowest octave of an Electric Bass, much less an Upright, or some heavy kick drum ...

music has changed, they're 30-40 year old designs

[Jeff Matthews]

They didn't use kick drums back then. The kick drum was all for show. []

[meagain]

Shhh... Listen... John Bonham rolling in his grave?

[HDBRbuilder]

The Belle Klipsch was never designed to be a stand-alone speaker to begin with. It was designed to be a more aesthetically pleasing version of the LaScala for use between a pair of K-horns in PWK's home. That's the whole thing in a nutshell!

PWK designed the LaScala for use by Winthrop Rockefeller on a flat trailer while he was stumping the state of Arkansas on his gubernatorial campaigns. Back in those days (early 1960's), political candidates went from place to place giving speeches while folks gathered for a free bar-b-que and listened to bluegrass or country music. Then the candidates would give their speeches, then the partying would continue. Rockefeller had Klipschorns in his home and liked the way they reproduced his baritone voice, so he asked PWK to come up with something he could take around the state that was smaller, did his voice justice, and did not need a corner to complete its bass horn. That was the design parameter of the LaScala.

PWK tried using the LaScala as a center channel between two K-horns and he liked the results. But when he took one home to put between his K-horns there, his first wife, Belle, did not like having that ugly LaScala in the living room. So, PWK designed the Belle for her aesthetic pleasure...AS A CENTER CHANNEL SPEAKER! Therefore the design parameter of the Belle Klipsch was: a pretty speaker that looks good between two Klipschorns and perfoms like a LaScala in center-channel use between two Klipschorns.

Belles, like LaScalas, have been bought for years for home stand-alone speakers, though, simply because they are SLIGHTLY cheaper than K-horns, AND because many folks just don't have good corners for installation of K-horns. So, if you don't like missing out on the bottom-end extension of the K-horn, then don't blame the Belle or LaSala for that, because that was NOT part of their design parameters to begin with! Either get K-horns, instead; and if you don't have good corners, then build false corners; OR get a good sub-woofer to take up the slack. Pretty simple!

At first it puzzled PWK that people bought just Heresys for primary speakers, since they were designed for supplemental use to K-horns. Then it puzzled him that people bought Cornwalls for primary speakers, since they were also designed as supplements to K-horns. Then it puzzled him that people bought LaScalas for their homes. Then it further puzzled him that they bought Belles in pairs for primary speakers. But each time, he finally got used to it, and his attitude was, "If they want them for main speakers, I'll sell them to them!"

Over the years, PWK even re-designed the Heresy AND the Cornwall ,somewhat, to make them better performers as stand-alone speakers because so many folks were buying them that way! BUT, stand alone speaker was NEVER part of ANY of those above-mentioned other Heritage speakers' design parameters. 'Nuff said!

[Jeff Matthews]

HDBR, very interesting read. I suppose it fits in well with the story on the LaScalas and Belles. I would never have guessed this about Cornwalls, though. That's what's interesting.

Sounds like Klipsch started with the intent to make speakers for large rooms/auditoriums/outdoor gatherings, but people kept bringing them home. That, if true, would go in line with the concept that all these other models were really only intended as supplements to KHorns.

[BEC]

Paul Klipsch told Edgar where the Lascala came from.

Bob Crites

Edgar Interview of PWK.pdf

[HDBRbuilder]

Jeff,

Klipsch DID NOT start out making speakers for large auditoriums and such. PWK started out making the Klipschorn, which was DESIGNED for home use, or it would never have been designed to begin with. Large auditoriums and concert halls had PLENTY of room for big bass horns, it was the HOME that needed the FOLDED bass horn.

1947 is considered the begin date for the Klipschorn (although it was designed before then). Then in the early 1950's came the Heresy (H model), then before the end of the 1950's, the Cornwall was in final development in its version as manufactured for over three decades. Then in the early 1960's came the LaScala, NOT designed for the home. Then in the early 1970's the Belle went into manufacture, although the original for Belle, herself was built before regular production began.

So, there you have it, the original so-called Heritage series, only one of which was NOT designed for home use. And only One of which was designed as a primary home speaker.

Although PWK was always a proponent of the three-speaker stereo array, when he first started building speakers, few folks had stereo. So most of his speakers were sold singly, with the K-horn in one corner of a room; and if a supplemental speaker was used, it was located in the opposite diagonal room corner. This for full-coverage MONAURAL sound set-ups

Actually, PWK actually did come up with a "omni-directional" four-K-horn MONAURAL array for auditorium, theater use; but as far as I know it was never implemented by any stage or auditorium for use. He drew up the way it could be done though. It is basically four K-horns backed up to each other, each covering a quadrant of the omni-directional coverage area. Just think about one pointing north, another south, another east, and another west, all backed up to each other. That was his array.

Every audio engineer understands that the IDEAL is to have ONE speaker(driver) that covers all the audible frequencies accurately and efficiently. That way all portions of the heard audio spectrum eminates from a single point instead of from several separate points which would require the listener to be further away from the speaker to get a blend of those separate sections of sound coming out of multiple points. When PWK designed the Klipschorn, he wanted a speaker that covered all the audio spectrum of a philharmonic orchestra. This speaker had to be accurate and efficient AND fit into a room of a house. At that time, the best he could do was a three-way, fully-horn-loaded system. It was a number of years before he was able to design a TWO-WAY fully-horn-loaded system that could do that too, the Jubilee. Why it took so long for the Jubilee to be designed is because the UPPER end of the audio spectrum had to be able to be in just ONE horn, instead of two. Once technology got to that point, the Jubilee was possible. If PWK was still alive, he would be waiting for technology to allow for a fully-horn-loaded ONE-WAY system to do it all in a living room.

[Jeff Matthews]

Jeff,

Klipsch DID NOT start out making speakeers for large auditoriums and such, they started out making the Klipschorn, which was DESIGNED for home use, or it woould never have been designed to begin with. Large auditoriums and concert halls had PLENTY of room for big horns, it was the HOME that needed the FOLDED horn.

!947 is the begin date for the Klipschorn. Then in the early 1950's came the Heresy (H model), then before the end of the 1950's, the Cornwall was in final development in its version as manufactured for over three decades. Then in the early 1960's came the LaScala, NOT designed for the home. Then in the early 1970's the Belle went into manufacture, although the original for Belle, herself was built before regular production began.

So, there you have it, the original so-called Heritage series, only one of which was NOT designed for home use.

Actually, PWK actually did come up with a "omni-directional" four-K-horn MONAURAL array for auditorium, theater use; but as far as I know it was never implemented by any stage or auditorium for use. He drew up the way it could be done though.

HDBR, seeing as you're a cabinet guy, can't you just imagine the endless custom pizzaz that could be done with the front of the KHorn bass bin? That's one nice, big, flat surface where the decorator's possibilities are almost endless.

[CaptnBob]

They didn't use kick drums back then. The kick drum was all for show. []

Tell that to Louie Bellson!

[Gilbert]

Andy, I love to read your posts.

Whenever you make a post or reply to an existing thread, it reminds me of the elementary school days when the recess bell would ring, and it was time again to go back to the classroom and learn something. Thanks.

[Jeff Matthews]

They didn't use kick drums back then. The kick drum was all for show. []

Tell that to Louie Belson!

Ah! You know of Louie Bellson. I saw the VHS version of Cobham vs. Bellson not too long ago. Bellson makes it look so easy!

[Duke Spinner]

Mmmmmnnnnn........

Vindication of my viewpoint

...in print, by an ex-employee ...........feel's Sooooooo good..........[]

[seti]

Bob, Thanks for the article but could you post the rest of the article...? : ) I was just getting into that so I guess I need to buy the book.

I bought my Belles because I was in an apartment and was never sure where I would be living. I have been so happy with the Belles they sound and look beautiful. I also have a sub but the Belles folded bass horn is great without it. I always hear people complain about lack of bass in La Scala and Belle but I don 't think the difference is really that great. When people hear my system and I mention that some people say they don't have enough bass they just sort look at me like "your kidding right". The folded bass horns are awsome thanks PWK.

[BEC]

seti said "Bob, Thanks for the article but could you post the rest of the article...? : )"

Here you go.

Bob Crites

Edgar Interview of PWK.pdf

[seti]

thank you sir : )

[richieb]

I know that in my system Belles have all the CORRECT bass I require. Is

it sometimes a bit shy on some recordings, yeah, but overall the sound

is so clean, crisp and right, a bit of shy bass now and then is a small

tradeoff. For my ears The Belles produce the right bass. And as one

poster says on his tag line, "all the bass worth hearing". A great line

I wish I had said.

[sunburnwilly]

I keep reading...do they have bass or not ? I bought a brand new pair from the factory in 1996. Bass...zip, nada,none. My KG4's blew them away in that department. What did they do well ? Dynamics, large vocal groups or instuments did not sound canned or homoginized. Do I love them, yes. Do I hate the lack of bass...yes. Go for broke and buy the Klipschorns !

Is there a point to your post ?

[seti]

That article is great!

I have been searching the internet looking for info on Paul Vought only to find the same article many times over. Does anyone have any links toinfo about his designs or a good book about the early days of audio?