jacksonbart Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 BAH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Hey, JB, get that "smart" look off your avatar! [] BAH! As in BAH, BAH Black Sheep, or as in BAH, BAH O'Reilly? Okay, I cheated and looked at your profile. You're an SS man. Now, I know what you mean. You're excused! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 As somewhat indicated above, this is not so much a sound issue (most don't hear or don't care), it's a convenience issue. "Where's the remote? I don't want to have to do anything to enjoy myself... get up and clean and flip a record? Are you crazy? Where's the remote?". In addition to the convenience issue, this is an educational issue. "I want it to have instant-on perfect reliability (and I don't even know how bad a sound I'm accepting for this). I don't want to have to do math, understand physics and engineering, much less electronics, music or psychology. Where's the remote, I need more slam!". In all seriousness, this is the difference between driving a fine sports car and a family sedan. Yes, the sports car needs its engine and suspension tuned periodically, and you have to go through the inconvenience of clutching and shifting the transmission. Some of us enjoy this, think about how to improve execution, and use our wits and skills to actively persue it. Other don't care, which is fine. I enjoy cleaning and flipping records, cueing the tonearm, keeping an eye and ear on the condition of my sylus and tubes, and listening to music. I like walking back to search by hand through my record collection to select the next one I play (yeah, the whole record). I like the fact that the volume control in on the preamp (not a remote). I like the idea that I have a box of spare tubes on standby. I even like graphing load lines. If I did not care a wit about the sound of music SS would be fine. But being me, I will never stray from vinyl, tubes, and horns. Pauln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easyeyes Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Easy, you make a point that I missed. I only spoke of expensive SS. Let me supplement: (1) Price being equal, there are some tubes that blow away very good SS; and (2) Price being equal, there are some SS's that blow away tubes. As a matter of fact, I am sure you can find bargains in both categories that, for less money, will outperform their counterparts. Jeff, you are correct in your statment, I think it behooves the individual putting the money out to search what's available in his/her price range, listen and make their decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 This topic is like beating on a dead horse... There are good and bad in all topologies, and there is no one topology that's the absolute best...never was; probably never will, so get over it. Just because I'm using a SET amp now doesn't mean I won't replace it with another SS amp in the future...hell, I'm thinking of trying out the latest design in digital Tripath amps just to see how it compares! I like 'em all...SS, PP, SEP, OTL, SET, PDQ, ABC, XYZ...who cares what topology it is as long as it's well built and sounds good! In the end it's all about the music. Just my humble opinion...[A] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Room acoustics are more important than using tubes or SS in regards to sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Room acoustics are more important than using tubes or SS in regards to sound. I can go with that idea, but it would turn this forum into a carpentry forum. (Not that I haven't tried unsuccessfully with Meagain). [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Room acoustics are more important than using tubes or SS in regards to sound. I can go with that idea, but it would turn this forum into a carpentry forum. (Not that I haven't tried unsuccessfully with Meagain). [] Hi Jeff How about some help with name that tune. (hint the answer is 'Born Under a Bad Sign') Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillH2121 Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I'm not going to dive into the debate of which is better (I prefer tubes). BUT, for those of you SS people that truly believe tubes can't produce glorious bass, I offer the Mac 2102! It digs deep - and no constant need to adjust bias, etc. Just turn it on an enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I used tubes from 1950 thru 1985 and the only thing that impressed me about them was how bad they were after I converted to SS. I used tubes on the Dewline Troposcatter heavy com and radar systems by the bushel full and was extrtemely thankful when the conversion started to SS. What a sigh of relief when the first GE SS taxi cab vehicle radios were installed. Those radios reduced maintenance by about 99.9 %. What a sigh of relief when the test equipment was upgraded to Hewlett-Packard stuff. We used some pretty exotic stuff and the calibrations would hold for 6 months instead of 1 day. What a sigh of relief when the Air/Ground radios were upgraded to SS. Reduced maintenance by about 95% What a sigh of relief when you didn't have to wait 4 hours for equipment to warm up and settle in for optimum performance. If I had saved all of those rotton tubes that went out in bushel baskets I could have sold them to all of you tube nuts and been a millionaire. JJK Give me a break........ Home audio is not mission critical and if tube gear is of high quality and in good working order reliabilty is not a issue. Yes tube gear requires more care then SS but so what. The now returned too posting "Mike Lindsay" is a classic example I rebuilt his 299 4 years ago and he has had it in service without even a tube replacement for that entire time as far as I know. Yes some are not so lucky and many times this can be traced right back to the user treating there tube gear like SS (turning it on/off a dozen times a day and so on) Also IT DOES NOT REQUIRE 4 HOURS FOR TUBE GEAR TO SOUND GOOD that is a complete LIE!! Both my systsem sound 100% listenable in 3 minutes max. Yes they sound better after a half hour but its not like you can't listen to them before that becasue they sound bad. Sounds to me like you had some awful condition tube gear or your just fishing to be flamed. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Craig: OK, I'll give you a break. I told my buddy to hold onto that old tube Fisher with power derived center channel that I gave him (still works) as he could get a lot of money for it on this forum. My other buddy said tubes are better and I said give me a break. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Silversport, et al, You got the best advice on the first page, get some gear to audition. What others have experienced is only slightly applicable to you, in your room, with your music, your tastes, etc. I tried a bunch of gear in my home, I was lucky to have audio freaks living near by who liked to have "shoot outs" and I came to my own conclusions about what sounded best in my system. During those shootoouts the comments of those people had real value since they heard equipment on my room, with my music and with my associated equipment. However no one anywhere else can tell me what sounds best in my system, or what should sound best. Thus I would not dare to fight with someone about what should sound best in their system, to do so IMHO is plain dumb. There are great sounding SS and tube gear, I would venture to say SOTA SS and tube gear. Get out there and audition! Regards, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 The now returned too posting "Mike Lindsay" is a classic example I rebuilt his 299 4 years ago and he has had it in service without even a tube replacement for that entire time as far as I know. That's a fact! I tested my 5AR4 Sovtek 3 years ago and it scored 102/105 on my B&K 606 tester, and tested it this past week as it goes into early retirement at 100/103. The vintage Mullard tested at 100/100. I also replaced my RCA 12AX7's with Telefunkens and they still registered near 100 when I took them out. Anyway, I am a firm believer in tubes with my La Scala's, and all I have to go on is the 299 that Craig reworked so far. It's music to my ears. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Also, although I am an SS guy, I'll come to a partial defense of tubes. Those who have commented that tubes don't have the ability to deliver low-end punch like the hard-core SS amps are incorrect. Some tubes might not be able to do this, but certainly not all. I have very limited tube experience. NosValves' VRD's delivered all the same punch as my Crown - at least when you get up to bordering on insanely loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 BAH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 BAH That's 3 "BAH's", JB! There's a 2-BAH limit. That'll be 1 demerit! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z4! Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I used tubes from 1950 thru 1985 and the only thing that impressed me about them was how bad they were after I converted to SS. I used tubes on the Dewline Troposcatter heavy com and radar systems by the bushel full and was extrtemely thankful when the conversion started to SS. What a sigh of relief when the first GE SS taxi cab vehicle radios were installed. Those radios reduced maintenance by about 99.9 %. What a sigh of relief when the test equipment was upgraded to Hewlett-Packard stuff. We used some pretty exotic stuff and the calibrations would hold for 6 months instead of 1 day. What a sigh of relief when the Air/Ground radios were upgraded to SS. Reduced maintenance by about 95% What a sigh of relief when you didn't have to wait 4 hours for equipment to warm up and settle in for optimum performance. If I had saved all of those rotton tubes that went out in bushel baskets I could have sold them to all of you tube nuts and been a millionaire. JJK Give me a break........ Home audio is not mission critical and if tube gear is of high quality and in good working order reliabilty is not a issue. Yes tube gear requires more care then SS but so what. The now returned too posting "Mike Lindsay" is a classic example I rebuilt his 299 4 years ago and he has had it in service without even a tube replacement for that entire time as far as I know. Yes some are not so lucky and many times this can be traced right back to the user treating there tube gear like SS (turning it on/off a dozen times a day and so on) Also IT DOES NOT REQUIRE 4 HOURS FOR TUBE GEAR TO SOUND GOOD that is a complete LIE!! Both my systsem sound 100% listenable in 3 minutes max. Yes they sound better after a half hour but its not like you can't listen to them before that becasue they sound bad. Sounds to me like you had some awful condition tube gear or your just fishing to be flamed. Craig Craig, JJK did not say that a tube amp would take 4 hours to sound good. I believe JJK was referring to military test equipment taking 4 hours to settle in for optimum performance. Just because you don't agree with someone does not make his statements lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Yes, it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBK Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 I personally can't get past losing the remote. I've yet to see one that has one and in my eyes, losing the ability to use a remote is like losing my microwave oven. Heck - indoor plumbing! I just can't imagine getting up and walking across the room to turn it up or down constantly. BizzyBee Audio preamp at www.2baudio.com has a remote. I believe I mention that in the past on other threads.Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBK Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Room acoustics are more important than using tubes or SS in regards to sound.True dat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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