Dreamthugg23 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Can anyone help me decide on a new a/v receiver for my system. I have narrowed my picks to the Denon 3806, the Yamaha V2600 and the Pioneer 74txvi. Not sure of the HDMI upconverting will matter much when Directv goes to all digital signal with the new HD dish. I just want to make sure I have enough for the future upgrades in products and the best sound out of my speakers. Here is what I am running now. Denon AVR 1905. Monster Power HTS3500, Samsung DVD-HD84 with DVI, Phillips Directv DVR, Directv H-20 with HDMI and a Mitsubishi 65 HDTV with DVI. For speakers I am running Klipsch RF15 for fronts, RC25 for center, Klipsch RS25 surrounds and a Velodyne DSP-10 I do like my Denon 1905, but would like to step that up. I would like the THX cert., but not sure if that is a big deal when it comes to great sound or music. Any Ideas?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Those are all good units,either would sound very good.You should try to audition each one and decide which you like best for sound and features.I'd buy the Denon only because I've owned several and they're at least as good as any you mentioned.There may be other choices you haven't considered.Get your max budget set and then listen,good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I have had an h/k, Yamaha, and now the Pioneer Elite receiver. With the h/k and Yamaha, I was always using an external amp to power my CW's, either a McIntosh MC250, Carver M400t, Carver TFM-35x, or an Aragon 4004 Mk II. The Carvers didn't do the CW's any justice. The MC250 sounded very "tube-like" but had a somewhat narrow soundstage. The 4004 Mk II sounded the best with a smooth top end and wider soundstage. The h/k and Yamaha receivers were way too bright on their own, hence the reason for using seperate amps to power the main channels. However, my current Pioneer Elite VSX-54TX receiver blows them all away in every way possible. That's saying a lot for a $1500 receiver, which BTW "is" THX cert. Unfortunately, I do not have experience with Denon receivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kde Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I have been impressed with the Pioneer Elite 54 as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOOTERDOG Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 My recommendation would be to wait another month and go for the new denon 2807. It has a retail price off $1100.00 110 watts per ch into 7 channels, hdmi switching, up conversion of composite and svhs to component and hdmi. All of your digital surround modes yada yada. It is going to be less in price then the 3806 with more video switching capabilities. Plus if you want to run 2 pair of side surrounds (a/b) and back surrounds only denon offers this option. I have an older denon 3801 that I use as a pre/pro and I love it. I do use the built in amplifier to drive my center and surrounds and I have been very pleased with it. In fact the times I have used it to drive my fronts I was very pleased with its performance. Denon builds a very solid piece of equipment, not that the others don't I just think the denon overall gives you great price per performance and capability. scooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOOTERDOG Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 I forgot to mention it also has a mic and built in room correction and calibration technology called MultEQXT from Audyssey Laboratories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamthugg23 Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 Scoot You think the 2807 will have all the same specs as the 3806. I did the side by side compare on the denon website and it didn't have the same processing as the 3806? It had the basic stuff that my 1905 has, but nothing really that new as in the processing. I know it has all the up conversion for the video, but do I need that? I have satellite and waiting for the all Digital and HD. Do you think I will still need all the up conversion? I s HDMI that much better or just for less cables??? I want true sound and the ability to upgrade later on to the HDCD and SACD. I also wired my house so I can run my computer to my Receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Scoot You think the 2807 will have all the same specs as the 3806. I did the side by side compare on the denon website and it didn't have the same processing as the 3806? It had the basic stuff that my 1905 has, but nothing really that new as in the processing. I know it has all the up conversion for the video, but do I need that? I have satellite and waiting for the all Digital and HD. Do you think I will still need all the up conversion? I s HDMI that much better or just for less cables??? I want true sound and the ability to upgrade later on to the HDCD and SACD. I also wired my house so I can run my computer to my Receiver. First let me say that Yamaha is NOT BRIGHT!! I have run Yamaha gear since the 70s and that is a myth that keeps popping up![:@] Next, if you are running a satellite receiver with their service YOU ARE ALL DIGITAL! Not all satellite programs are HD but all are DIGITAL. Any new development with picture will be output in at least HDMI as it is compliant with the anti copy protocol and your TV needs to accept that signal, Hi def DVD will fall into that category when it happens. I use a HTPC as a source and feed direct from it to our projector. The audio is a digital feed from the PC to our Yamaha RXV-750 receiver, where it is de-coded and sent to the speakers. I do not use the receiver to switch video sources so for us, that point is moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Wayne, Thanks for beating me to the puch on the Yamaha brightness myth. I was going to call ullbe itshe on that myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyT Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 +3 on Yamaha being bright is a myth. All 3 receivers are good units. Listen to them and see which you like the best. If they all sound the same to you then pick the one with the features you want most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOOTERDOG Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Scoot You think the 2807 will have all the same specs as the 3806. I did the side by side compare on the denon website and it didn't have the same processing as the 3806? It had the basic stuff that my 1905 has, but nothing really that new as in the processing. I know it has all the up conversion for the video, but do I need that? I have satellite and waiting for the all Digital and HD. Do you think I will still need all the up conversion? I s HDMI that much better or just for less cables??? I want true sound and the ability to upgrade later on to the HDCD and SACD. I also wired my house so I can run my computer to my Receiver. Hmmm...I trying to see where I said the 3806 and 2807 have the same specs. Yes I to have done a side by side comparison of the two. In most respects they share quite alot. You asked about hdmi and mentioned sacd. Sacd as with DVD Audio requires multi-channel inputs and all 3 offer this feature, in fact not many now adays don't have these. As far as processing it is almost a wash because the 3806 has a couple of things the 2807 doesn't but then again the 2807 has many more dsp modes. Your concern was whether you needed certain things or not. My response was based on your initial Q and I offered something else in the mix. You need not come off as an *** when asking for suggestions because you won't last long here IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamthugg23 Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 Scoot, Sorry if my question made me come off as an ***? I meant the 2807 didn't have all the same specs as the 3806, but wanted to know if that matter or not when it comes to good music. I love my Denon very much and when I bought it I was told that they were the best and everyone else just added alot of the extra dsp modes that wouldn't work in all homes. That is what I meant to say, is the Yamaha and Pioneer just bells and whistle or really as good compared to the Denon? It is very hard figuring out what I really need in a reciever and what is just bells I'd never ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcott Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 DSP surround modes are usually the bells you will never ring. I reviewed several receivers and the Denons (3805) had some of the lowest THD figures tested by Sound and Vision Magazine. It also maintained 105 watts per channel with 5 channels driven (Rated at 120watts). All of the receivers you mentioned get good marks so you should probably take the others advice and listen to as many of them as you can before making a decison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 I'm not trying to start an arguement, and I'm not saying that anyone is wrong as everything here is based soley on "opinions", which we all know what they say about opinions... Anyway, I don't understand how some of you can say that "Yamaha being bright" is a myth. It is not a myth if you have the hard, tangible proof right in front of you. Nothing in my system changed when I switched over to the Pioneer Elite except that the Yamaha was pulled out. Even before I did any tuning with the Elite's MCACC, there was a clear difference between the two receivers. At the time, I was running a pair of Triangle Zephyr loudspeakers. With the Yamaha, it treble was very hot, especially when pushed and left me fatigued after about an hour or so of listening. But once I installed the Elite, that hot treble was gone. The Zephyrs now had a much smoother top end, fuller upper midrange, and left me "fatigueless". <-- if that's even a word. LOL But anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Ya know...yamaha couldn't build up the reputation of having bright amplification if it didn't exist...relative to all the other brands out there, yamaha is definetly the brightest. And for a while there (late 80's early 90's), most of the yammie gear was so bright to the point that it was entirely unbearable. They have since corrected for those issues - and the more recent recievers are sounding very very nice, but they still have that reputation for a reason. Compared to the other recievers mentioned, yamaha will be the brightest. Denon will be on the more neutral/dry side. I haven't had the opportunity to seriously demo the new pioneer stuff. I know you didn't ask about them, but Harman Kardon will be more on the warm side. That said, they all sound great - so choose your poison. Some people prefer the slightly brigher sound (nothing wrong with that) and go with yamaha. I personally like the neutral sound of the denon (and I really like their preamp stage as well...very good dacs). And then there are some that prefer a warmer sound that the HK will provide. The route you choose to go will be entirely dependant upon the music to which you listen. And it is for this reason that you will get so many varying opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 Thanks Dr. Who for the exposition. I always wondered what people meant by Yamaha being bright because before I switched to multichannel receivers, I ran my ForteII's with a Yamaha integrated stereo amp from around 1980 and don't remember any brightness issues. I still have the amp, but not using it at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 I'm not trying to start an arguement, and I'm not saying that anyone is wrong as everything here is based soley on "opinions", which we all know what they say about opinions... Anyway, I don't understand how some of you can say that "Yamaha being bright" is a myth. It is not a myth if you have the hard, tangible proof right in front of you. Nothing in my system changed when I switched over to the Pioneer Elite except that the Yamaha was pulled out. Even before I did any tuning with the Elite's MCACC, there was a clear difference between the two receivers... I agree. Before I bought my first Denon I owned 3 Yammis (RXV-793,RXV-795 and the RXV-800). They all sounded good at lower volume. It wasn't until I moved the RXV-800 to a larger room that I had problems with brightness at louder volume. The long story, short is that when I changed out the Yammi for the Denon AVR-3803 (after trying a Pioneer Elite that kept shutting down at the level I wanted), I was amazed at the difference. [] I thought WPC was WPC until I discovered THAT was a misconception. IMO, it's because the Denons are a higher current design (i.e., use more electricity) and run the speakers more efficiently. Yamaha makes quality products and are usually cheaper than the comparable Denons. Every price point has it's benefits. BTW, welcome to the forum Dreamthugg. []If you don't need video upconversion I would consider finding a discontinued Denon AVR -3805 as several have suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 This old dead horse gets kicked around a lot. As has been said before, everyones hearing is different. What may be "bright" to one person, the next thinks it's perfect. Vice versa with the "warm" bit. Then there are all of the many factors in the room that make the sound what it is. Carpet, drapes, hardwood floors, vaulted ceiling, size of room, speaker / sub positioning etc..................It's all in taste. It's simply what you like, not what someone else tells you what you should like.You have to listen to your set-up in your room and then determine if you like it or not. I have owned Yamaha equipment for a LOT of years and happen to like the sound no matter what it's called by some ( "bright / warm"). My ears hear powerful, clean, accurate sound on some recordings and pure crap on others. Depends on the care taken on recording / mixing etc. Again, this is through my ears in my home. That is my take on this.[]Take care and have fun....(test-drive before you buy if at all possible)Mike (The Yamaha / Hsu Underdog) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbajner Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 being a Yamaha receiver owner for some time now, I would recommend that other brands be looked at. I started out with a Yamaha stereo receiver CR1020. This has a very good clean sound. I still have this unit. It is not small compared to today's stereo only reveivers. Upgraded to a RXV850 to get Dolby Pro-Logic processing. then again upgraded to the RXV2095 to get Dolby Digital and DTS processing I always thought the build quality of the RXV series was very good. that is one reason why I stayed with this brand. others mentions brightness when the Yamaha's are pushed. I would have to say this a correct statement. I recently purchased a separate amp (Anthem MCA50) and using the RXV2095 as a pre-pro. this combination of a good external amp proved out to be a great combo. the sound is smoother and better midrange definition. when cranking the volume now the sound is not harsh as before. hope all this info helps out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 This old dead horse gets kicked around a lot. As has been said before, everyones hearing is different. What may be "bright" to one person, the next thinks it's perfect. Vice versa with the "warm" bit. Then there are all of the many factors in the room that make the sound what it is. Carpet, drapes, hardwood floors, vaulted ceiling, size of room, speaker / sub positioning etc.................. It's all in taste. It's simply what you like, not what someone else tells you what you should like. You have to listen to your set-up in your room and then determine if you like it or not. That is why it only makes sense to talk about comparisons and not so much about what is "best." One can't deny that relative to the other brands the yamahas always sound brighter. Whether or not that is a good thing is dependant upon all the other variables - and the listener. The only problem talking about comparisons is that it's rare to have the chance to sit down and equally compare every reciever on the exact same speakers in a perfect listening environment. Anyways, instead of defending what we own and our own tastes - we can be objective and help the person figure out what kind of sound they're looking for...and then suggest some models in the price range that satisfy those goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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