RichardP Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Greetings fellow Klipsch-mongers. I want to upgrade from my adequate RW-12 to something more powerful, clean, and "musical" (whatever that means, exactly) to complement my all Forte/Academy HT, situated in my 4500 cubic ft living/listening room. I use my system 80% for music and 20% movies (both at around 80-90 dB), so subterranean 16-20 Hz at 110 dB is not necessarily a must-have. I actually tried the SVS 20-39 PC Plus for a month, and while I heard the difference in bass extension, it did not really increase my enjoyment significantly, especially for music, so I sent it back (it was also a bit too "aesthetically imposing"). I did set it up with the RS SPL meter, and also plotted the room curve with some downloaded bass tones. I measured a +8 dB room peak around 37-38 Hz which might argue for a new model with some type of built-in equalizer. Another problem in my room is lack of flexibility in location; I can only put the sub between the front left speaker and the TV, as there are no usable corners, and a tile carpet border means I can't run cables easily to other parts of the room. I am also not willing to use room treatments; after all, this is a living room. After reading hundreds of posts on several forums, the subs in my price range that are frequently recommended, and their cost, quoted by dealers or internet, are: - Velodyne SPL 1200R, $1100 (+$50 shipping), EQ, remote - NHT U2, $1000 (+$50), outboard amp & EQ, 12" drivers in two 14" cabinets - SVS PB12/Ultra, $1200 (+$100), EQ - SVS PB12/Plus 2, $1200 (+$100), no EQ - Hsu VTF MkII, $700 (+$53), no EQ - have read about many others, with less consensus (ACI Titan, Rocket UFW12, etc.). Unfortunately, no local dealer carries the Klipsch RSW line or Sunfire, so those are out. I am limiting myself to $1000-1200 tops, and I don't want to go DIY or IB. I would especially like to hear from anyone with a similar music-centered set-up who has used any of these subs or has other recommendations. Thanks to all in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Nice list of prospects...would also like to hear some testimonials. I am happy with my JBL 120's ($700 list, but paid less than $300 on clearence), but am open minded to other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye_Nut Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I am also not willing to use room treatments; after all, this is a living room. That's a darned shame becaue the room "IS" your sound. Spending money on 'this or that' is like upgrading to a new fly swatter before you've cleaned up the mess. Either way, you're fighting a losing battle. The most significant way to improve your sound is to fix the room if you have not done so. There are no rules against a living room being both acoustically friendly and 'attractive'. Yes, if you spend $1200 on a better sub,(it will sound better), but if you put that same money into your room...........it will sound a HELL of a lot better[] my 2 cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted May 22, 2006 Author Share Posted May 22, 2006 not trying to be pushy, but thought I'd get more responses..... anybody?....... anybody?...... Beuller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Maybe a "sealed" sub? I have the same sub you returned and a sealed sub is one I'd try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Greetings. While it sounds like the 20-39+ filled the room to your liking, the nature of the sound didn't fit the bill. If that's the case then the PB12+2 will only be more of the same. I don't have experience but the PB12 Ultra has a different sound than the plus line that you may find more pleasing for your music. Also, if you're not going with any room treatments (coupled with your desire for accurate music reproduction) then I would steer away from subs without EQ's. I know I didn't give you a definite answer, but hopefully some advice to narrow it down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I personally would recommend a sealed sub for music, but that is negociable depending on the design. I have found a continuously variable phase control EXTREMELY valuable for smoothing the crossover point for optimum sub/mains integration. I'll bet you could remove that 40Hz hump by adjusting the phase control. I use a DIY sealed sub with my Cornwalls. The variable phase control on the Rythmik Audio amp gives me seamless integration with the mains. It would be just about impossible without the control. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanbrain Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 From the OP's recommendations, it sounds like the Velodyne SPL 1200R fits the bill because it's sealed (more "musical") it has a mic to eq the sub to the rooms response, it has a remote (useful) and you can get it in three different finishes (a real boon). Sounds like a winner to me, but take this with a grain of salt. Having never heard one, and having never heard your Forte/Academy HT. Come to think of it, I'm probably the least qualified person here to answer this question. Maybe you should get the SVS ultra. Heck, I don't know. I think I just dug myself a hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlstrass Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I know this won't really help but an IB sub is THE best I've ever heard for music. I've got a room full of Legends and it blends seamlessly and is accurate beyond belief. You might want to consider it as there are many ways to install them and it's not hard at all. I can guarantee you will not be disappointed. I demoed a Rel several years ago and was very impressed sound qualiy wise, but not for the $$$. Did little for HT, but was nice for music. Best bet is to start demoing a bunch of local ones and bring the music you listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I like the punch of the Klipsch LF10 that I had, but the depth of the ACI Titan with my big ones (before I bi-amped)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 Thanks to all the "Beullers" who replied thus far. Are there any more comments I can squeeze out of anybody? Fry?.....Fry?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 I also bought an svs cylinder several years back,it was a good deal and a good co but I too did not care for the type bass it produced(prolly great for movies).Too bad about the rsw15 option.I also had a sunfire,great sub,once I got the15 I sold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 It really does depend on what kind of affect you are looking for. The problem with the accurate, deep and flat low frequency response of the classic Klipsch corner Khorns is that they do NOT have enough mid-bass punch for movies and some forms of music. They are wonderful for orchestral music, where the low booms of the tympani contrast to the sweet sounds of the piccolo and triangles. But todays techno and action movies require theater-like whallops of bass. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> In the excellent article, Subwoofers Under the Christmas Tree, December, 2001, by Brian Weatherhead, he compares not only the leading Velodyne grand-daddy sub-woofer, but also the Internet-only SVS tubes and the punchy Klipsch KSW and RSW series. The article not only compares how the subs sound and shows their frequency response curves, it also reduces their price to output ratio to something he calls a shake value. Very interesting stuff: 1. If you want the mid-bass punch for movies and drums, then according to the wonderful comparisons and charts provided by Weatherford, the powerful Klipsch RSW series would be the best choice. It gives more output in the 83 to 121Hz mid-bass range than any of the other subs compared. It also has the second most output, next to the SVS tubes, in the low 24 to 34Hz area. 2. If you seek the tonal accuracy and mid-range balance that comes from a truly flat frequency response, then the only commercially available sub-woofer that can fill out the big ole Khorn bottom-end is the SVS tubes. They are the only subs which go deep enough to make a difference in the low-end bass response. It clearly has the most output in the very deep 13 1/2 to 45 3/4Hz range. 3. By the way, the author bought both the SVS and the Klipsch RSW sub-woofer. I have heard the SVS tubes with conventional loudspeakers, and while I do NOT have a RSW series sub, I did have its ill-fated Klipsch LF10 precursor. The other problem with exceptionally low notes is that you hear them better in other parts of the house, but NOT as well as in the semi-open listening room. The low frequency extension of my big ole horns resounds throughout most of my humble abode, but I dont catch much of this while I am in the same room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 not trying to be pushy, but thought I'd get more responses..... anybody?....... anybody?...... Beuller? For a "musical" sub I would seriously consider the Velodyne SPL1200 and the REL Q200E All I see these days are SVS pushers,SVS are the ideal choice ...for movies or cut low with LARGE mains where very deep bass is a must. Of course by definition a subwoofer must reproduce deep bass. SVS matches to perfection with large mains,you have large mains SVS Plus and Ultra subs are simply hard to beat. You mave mid sized mains or bookshelf sats,Velodyne's SPL series will fit the bill better than SVS. End of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I've been very pleased with my Hsu. It's totally musical and never intrusive and boomy. I recall paying around $800 for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I believe he purchased the kw120s and amps from rmlowz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted June 2, 2006 Author Share Posted June 2, 2006 I believe he purchased the kw120s and amps from rmlowz Yes, I did, but thanks anyway, posters. The KW/KA just fell into my lap at the right time. It was too good of a price and within pick up distance, so I could not pass it up, even though it was more $ than I initially considered. Hopefully this thread will still be informative for other forum users. I think going from your first "entry level" $400-600 sub to something about twice as much is probably a common step for many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I believe he purchased the kw120s and amps from rmlowz Yes, I did, but thanks anyway, posters. The KW/KA just fell into my lap at the right time. It was too good of a price and within pick up distance, so I could not pass it up, even though it was more $ than I initially considered. Hopefully this thread will still be informative for other forum users. I think going from your first "entry level" $400-600 sub to something about twice as much is probably a common step for many. I mean I bet your sub you have was adequate but now your your bringing a gun to a knife fight with those THX II Subs [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybertec Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 The Sub I use is in my signature below, it is one earth shaking beast, it is great for music and movies, the bass is as tight "not boomy" and powerful as it can get, it has adjustments from 25hz,20hz, to 16hz, for the money nothing comes close to SVS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrench722 Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 What about the RWS on Klipsch EBay? I have two RWS 15,s and two JBL E-250. The RWS realy kick butt on music and movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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