jwc Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Al. I am definately "small fry". I would be very disapointed if you stop what you do. I have been here coming on two yeas and admired your post and gathered a ton of info for my own interest. Your ALK Universal A brought me to the forum and the experience has been great since. I typically seek out your posts because they are interesting. You have given me a wealth of education asking nothing in return. I unfortunately can't reciprocate back to you as you are leaps and bounds ahead of me. I have no reason to "brown nose" you with the above statements. The true reason for them is that you DO know what you are doing. Your recent biggest win to me from a software design standpoint was for me to see the ESN700 I put together make the K33 drop like a rock at 700HZ in my TallCorns. No guessing or swapping out parts there to get it right....just damn good math from what I can tell. Please stick around and continue to "fry" next to the small "fish". jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Actually, I think it's all my fault. A long time ago Al used to ignore me. I found out that if I said really stupid things, it would get under his skin so bad he would come in and set me straight. Later I found out that if I posted schematics and pictures of botched filters he would fix them for me. So I told Al, hey, you know -- maybe if you're really obnoxious you can get Roy's attention. Well, it worked -- uh, sort of:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 "Can any kind of "system" compensation account for 9 dB attenuation at 1290 Hz... Maybe a resonance that makes the diaphragm move in the gap that causes a big impedance spike, with a nice jump in acoustic output at that point. Maybe not so bad alone, but on the horn becomes worse. ...and 18 dB at 850 Hz through the high filter?" Through the high pass? Well, it would combine with the natural roll-off of the bass bin. Not sure what you are saying here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Richard, I appreceiate the post you just submitted emencely! You are the guy who is suffering here. I wanted to do a design for the Jubilee ever since I first saw it at the first tour to Hope where we all met PWK. I also met Roy there even though he doesn't remember. I jumped at the oppootunity to do a design for you becasue it was a way to do my ultimate design and live my fanticy! Now becasue somebody does't think his design could possibly be improved that possibility is trash! Now we all suffer! Roy ticked me off the very first post he made to me by addressing me as "ALKLAPER" or "alberger" or something just as derogitory. Like "AL" is hard to type or something! Anyhow, I am very sorry I lost it over this FOR YOU! I couldn't care less what HeeHaw thinks of me at this point! Dean, All I can say is if that network design is to compensate for veriations in the Jubilee then the Jubilee is the bad design. I know that is not the case! Again: It is so bad that there has got to be something very basic going on. The active crossover / processor Richard is using has no such compensation. There was no special instruction give to him other than a delay setting for the upper driver. That is all it needs! No information was give about CD horn compensation either. Does Richard have a tin ear and not be able to hear the mass roll-off of a CD horn with no compensation? I REALLY doubt that! Another point: Aragance. Richard's request to Roy for simple information that would have allowed me to do the design was met with something to the tune of : Have him build my design and then have a party! The meaning being: That idiot couldn't possibly do a better design than I have done! Now THAT is arogance! Sorry guys. If anyboy wants to build my networks for me as a business venture, please apply. All I ask is a simple commision off the top. Be advised though that you will have to raise the prices becasue my profit margin is quite small! I am tired of this stuff! There is no fun in it any more! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I'll build the Sr. if it's sent to me as a kit. Maybe you could put the kits together, mark them up with your "commission", and then I'll charge a flat labor fee. I've gotten quite a few emails from people who want me to keep building the one for the Cornwall too. I'm considering it, but still on the fence. I'm not intimidated by the ESN builds so much as I am by the time in the workroom to build them -- Debbie would kill me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Roy ticked me off the very first post he made to me by addressing me as "ALKLAPER" or "alberger" or something just as derogitory. Like "AL" is hard to type or something! I can't speak for Roy but my gut feeling is you missed that particular boat big time. I am probably the blame for him doing that as if you read the posts, he used to be "Roy". There was a thread with some comments he made about his love of blueberries and him having some on his land to pick (as I do too). I then started calling him BerryBoy and he started calling me Coyotee-O or something similar and I noticed he began his creativity with many names. You will now notice that he now signs all his threads BerryBoy Roy. Frankly, I think you've missed his sense of humor even though someone here made a comment about "we need to watch out for we have an engineer with a sense of humor amongst us" (or something like that) I'd bet you my Jubilees his calling you (insert name) was no more than his 'playing the game' (that I started) by calling him "Berry Boy". No way on earth was he being derrogotory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 And I DO think your use of "Hee Haw" comes across as inflammatory. I"m not trying to disrespect you, just giving my observation. If my gut feeling is right, then who could blame him? (even if you started it out of a wrong conclusion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 "Sorry guys. If anyboy wants to build my networks for me as a business venture, please apply. All I ask is a simple commision off the top. Be advised though that you will have to raise the prices becasue my profit margin is quite small! I am tired of this stuff! There is no fun in it any more!" Al K. Man, this is making me sick. I hope this has no impact on your contribution to this forum. I'm thinking of myself here. Excuse me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 JC, it's mostly related to Al going back to K&L Microwave. He's short time on time and even shorter on patience right now. He'll be alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Richard, The "alKBerg' or whatever thing was was taken in that spirit at the time even though it rubed me the wrong way. It's only now in retrospect that it's adding salt to the wound. As for HeeHaw being derogitiry, you bet it is, and it intentional! GGRRRrrr... Jw, Don't worry, I'm just and email or phone call away. I am always happy to help somebody who want it from me. Dean, Buildng the original universal "ALK" wouldn't be doing much. Most of my orders now are for the ES networks. Al k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Al, "Can any kind of "system" compensation accout for 9 dB attenuation at 1290 Hz and 18 dB at 850 Hz throuhg the high filter?" If the driver/horn had a couple of big peaks in it then sure. You assume these are the results of ignorance on the designer. Do you really think EQ of that magniture wouldn't be measured in some way shape or form by Klipsch? They have far better equipment then either of us does. I'm personally willing to think if it is there it is there for a reason. In my system I have a couple of big EQ notches in the system too. Looking at the output of my crossovers would look worse then that. However the acoustic results look considerably better. Speaker design is not really just a text book undertaking. It is balancing a large number of tradeoffs together to see if a pleasing result occurs. Sometimes one makes a compromise in one area to see benefits in another. The best designers know where to optimize and where to compromise. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Richard, I haven't looked at the EV crossover you have but if you wanted to you more then likely could set it up for very high slope crossovers by combining parametric EQ 'notches' within the crossover to gain sharper slopes. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/593379.aspx Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Al, Please don't let Dean build my ES networks?[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Shawn: "Speaker design is not really just a text book undertaking. It is balancing a large number of tradeoffs together to see if a pleasing result occurs." I think this is a key point. It's also directly related to the multitude of crossover discussions that have come up in the past, and something I have tried to suggest, as well. I don't believe that what's 'good' or 'bad' is something that can always be measured, and I would also agree that Klipsch engineers are more than aware of that fact. To arrive at the assumption that a component is universally a 'bad' or 'poor' design, simply by virtue of how it appears on paper, is IMO possibly short-sighted and premature. It leaves out something that to me is more critical, still. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Shawn, "Do you really think EQ of that magniture wouldn't be measured in some way shape or form by Klipsch? They have far better equipment then either of us does. I'm personally willing to think if it is there it is there for a reason." Yes! This is exactly what is worrying me about this whole thing. If a speaker has a good response there is no need for major (and this is major) corrections! Look at the published article on the Jubilee bass horn. Was the response plot a total lie! This is why I kept trying to get confirmation that the parts values and topology was keyed properly into the computer! If there is such a major interaction between the speaker and the network that would require such major hacking on a network that should tell you that you are working with the wrong topology. The network and speaker are simply not going together properly! BTW your suggestion on sharpening the skirts in an active crossover is a good one. Aparently the Jubilee horn doesn't object violently to an amp like it seems to do with "his" network! Mark, Have no fear! I will definitly complete the orders I have. I am sure that Dean could build them though. He's just chicken to try it! Al k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 (Gulp)[:-*] Bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Slammin, That reminds me, who started this thread? I don't even remember! I will have to look back th the first page and look. He must really be upset about what it degenerated into! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Nah... I think it was a sneaky attempt BY a degenerate to get us all banned and leave him standing at the peak of the heap! [6] [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Slammin, That reminds me, who started this thread? I don't even remember! I will have to look back th the first page and look. He must really be upset about what it degenerated into! Al K. No, No, and No! Don't even think that I started this thread/war. I just bumped to get the punch count! I am the guy with ring-side tickets holding a newspaper in front of his face to deflect the blood from a heavy weight bout. I bet on both fighters and hope the decision is a draw so that everyone wins.[{] Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Guys, If anybody is to blame for this mess it's me. I am actually surprised that I was not cut off especailly considering it was a Klipsch big-shot I have been attacking! When I get good and mad I tell it like I think it is and take no prisoners! Thinking about the consiquences is just not my thing. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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