Cornwall IIIs, to rewire or not...?

[seti]

...by the North American distributor of DNM cables, too. Yep, the Funks got me hooked on DNM too.

I think replacing the old lamp cord with the DNM made a *huge* difference. I've also done other tweaks to my Cornwalls: .

But my speakers were 28 years old when it was done. I have no idea how it would affect new speakers. But the copper Reson cables have an amazing ability to get out of the way and let the music through, and I'm willing to bet they're *different* than the cabling that's already in the speakers.

Hmm How much?

[The Matching Mole]

How much did the cable cost? I honestly don't remember. But I do remember buying some DNM speaker wire off of eBay for a song once.

[Audio Flynn]

WPM,

You've gotten good advice here. I agree. Leave the CW III's alone. No way to improve them with new wire inside.

Second that!

[WPM]

Efhjr,

It's nice to see another DNM cable user. These cables have totally changed the way I view, indeed, listen to audio cables. Gone is the hype that surrounds just about all of the other cables out there, except perhaps zip-cord and original Monster, leaving nothing behind but the music.

Come on, how much hype can there be about one single strand of solid-core coper wire per channel? Yet these cables have confounded my preconception of what cables are supposed to do. No other cable has given me more musical satisfaction than the DNM's, and I've used too many others to list.

Yes, Creston sent me the e-mail, said he has a client with Cornwalls (not sure if they were old or new), and that they rewired them with the DNMs and the difference in sound was startling. I don't want to rewire mine just yet, as they are new, but it gives me an avenue to consider some years down the road.

Seti... DNM cables are not too expensive, when you consider the increase in sound quality on-tap when compared to other, so called, "high-end" brands. For example, I paid $80.00 for a 1-meter pair of DNM Bullet interconnects... these are DNM Reason cables with Eichman "Bullet" connector plugs on both ends. The Bullets make a hell of a difference over standard, low-cost, connectors.

The difference in the DNMs, as opposed to the $750.00 1-meter pair of Audioquest "Panther" interconnects I was using, was staggering. A definate "veil" had been lifted, not to mention increased depth and harmonics. Everything just sounded better.

I am not trying to start a cable debate, and I respect the choice of cables any of you may be using in your systems. I am simply expressing my own experience with the DNMs. Cheers!

William

[edwinr]

WPM... don't do it.

[Klipschguy]

Rewire? That depends. If you are the kind of guy that believes chrome valve covers really do make a car go faster, then do it. The difference will amaze you.

[Audio Flynn]

And every thing goes blazes under the dust cap. Those wires you cant change.

Similar to a fuse in an amplifier.

[scott0527]

Outside of hi-fi, can someone name another field where $75.00 capacitors and $100 per foot wire is used? If this stuff really made any difference, wouldn't it be found in medical equipment, communication equipment, missle guidance systems, life support devices, video/audio survelliance systems, etc.? Why is this stuff only marketed and sold in the hi-fi field?

[Lascaladan]

I am a huge believer in cable and wire upgrades, but not in this case. Leave them alone and just enjoy them!

[BEC]

Outside of hi-fi, can someone name another field where $75.00 capacitors and $100 per foot wire is used? If this stuff really made any difference, wouldn't it be found in medical equipment, communication equipment, missle guidance systems, life support devices, video/audio survelliance systems, etc.? Why is this stuff only marketed and sold in the hi-fi field?

Trouble with trying to sell that stuff to the people you mentioned above is that you would have to actually justify the product by scientific means to people who could understand it. Those people typically don't believe in magic.

[jacksonbart]

Its like buying a solid gold toilet seat to improve your sh!ts, when a gold plated one will work just fine.

[scott0527]

Outside of hi-fi, can someone name another field where $75.00 capacitors and $100 per foot wire is used? If this stuff really made any difference, wouldn't it be found in medical equipment, communication equipment, missle guidance systems, life support devices, video/audio survelliance systems, etc.? Why is this stuff only marketed and sold in the hi-fi field?

Trouble with trying to sell that stuff to the people you mentioned above is that you would have to actually justify the product by scientific means to people who could understand it. Those people typically don't believe in magic.

You would think more hi-fi people would feel stupid about such an obvious disconnect. Why do we allow ourselves to be sold this stuff when much more critical electronic pieces of equipment are run with what I would call 'regular' components.

I would still like to know, is there another industry that touts and sees the benefits of ultra costly high end electronic components and wire? I can't believe they are only to be found in home enthusiast audio? Surely the companies that produce this stuff would have found other markets in which their products provided benefits.

[Deang]

There is a lot of 'high end' wire that is reasonably priced. I don't think there is anything wrong with paying $10 a foot for wire that won't turn green in a year, comes terminated with soldered connectors, and uses a high quality jacket. I agree that the high dollar stuff is ludicrous. If I want a shift in signature I'll spend that kind of money on something that makes a difference that's easier to hear -- like an amp or CD player. Of course, some people believe changing out an amp or CD player makes about as much difference as changing out wire -- right Bob?

I don't think caps should be lumped in with wire. As for high dollar caps, they are relatively inexpensive compared to some of the things that are used in other fields -- where there are other considerations that take precedent.

http://www.avxcorp.com/docs/techinfo/perform_gl.pdf

http://powerelectronics.com/news/power_ultrastable_glass_capacitors/

Finally, and I've pointed this out before -- metallized polypropylene caps from Cornell Dubilier and Vishay (Mouser catalog) cost about the same as their "audiophile" counterparts. In some cases, they cost more. For example, the 20uF Vishay cost twice as much as a 20uF Auricap. Good luck finding a non-audiophile film and foil in ANY value from anywhere that you don't have to buy in the thousands. At any rate, most "audiophile" polypropylenes are mil-spec, and caps of that type are used anywhere, and in anything that requires a cap of that type. IOWs, the same things that make polypropylene desireable in audio applications make them desireable in other applications as well.

http://www.ascapacitor.com/PDF/polypropylene%20general%20information.PDF

[Erik Mandaville]

With all due respect, $10/ft. is also terribly expensive. There are 'high-end' companies that use the VERY same cable shown in the following ebay link that turn around and charge extreme amounts. It is not necessary.

Over nearly 20 years I have used literally hundreds of feet of this same kind of wire in wiring crossovers, crossovers to drivers, and in preamps and amps, and is quality stuff insulated with Teflon -- generally thought of as a high quality dielectric material. PE is also very good. I've used Jena Labs speaker cable in the past which uses PE over Teflon, however that wire is NOT inexpensive stuff. It is, however, what my Lowther PM2As are wired with.

This is silver plated copper, and, like SET or PP followers, have followers and otherwise.

The amount of wire needed for the internal wiring in Cornwalls is so minimal compared to the amount signals will travel through from amps to crossover inductors, and so forth.

Erik

edit: Here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/50-feet-12-AWG-Teflon-wire-Mil-W-16878-4-Silver-plate_W0QQitemZ250041252376QQihZ015QQcategoryZ32833QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Erik Mandaville]

WPM:

That BIN price for 50ft at just under $8.00 will be over soon. If you want some of this stuff, I have about 75 feet of it in violet or brown. I'll send you some for free minus shipping if you would like it.

You don't need 12AWG for internal speaker wiring, though. Teflon is a stiff material to work with, and just gets a little hard to work with in heavier AWGs. It does make good speaker cable, though. The point was that, with a little work in terms of buying decent terminations, (see your corner Radio Shack or go to HOme Depot), one can purchase very good mil-spec wire for very cheap!

Erik

[Erik Mandaville]

Here's some more from the same seller in 18AWG. There is lots of this wire available.

http://cgi.ebay.com/125-feet-Teflon-18-AWG-wire-Silver-plated-5-COLORS_W0QQitemZ250043523318QQihZ015QQcategoryZ32833QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Of course it's possible to pay more, and I'm not saying what you get for that isn't decent stuff. The point is that it's possible, particularly in this application, to do very well for what in this case amounts to probably less than a latte' at that coffee place.

Erik

[Erik Mandaville]

...and to get off this wire rant, what I use now for internal active circuitry and passive crossover is the great UL 1015 600v tinned stranded copper. Stranded wire is just a little more demanding than a solid single coductor, but the insulation is tough and can stand up to soldering temps well.

It's cheap, good wire.

Erik

[Speedball]

I use the plastic ones for coats. The plastic ones don't work for speaker wire.

Maybe if you had them gold plated[]

.......I like good wire but some of it is terribly expensive.

[Deang]

With all due respect, $10/ft. is also terribly expensive.

Yeah, I think so too -- I'm just saying it's not like spending $100 a foot! I was thinking along the lines of some nicely terminated 8 foot pairs of 12 AWG, and you have to factor in the 8 connectors, labor (soldering/shrinkwrap), and the packaging. Connectors on cables like that are usually pretty nice too, and probably constitute 25% of the cost. $160 to tie the speakers to the amps is definitely on the high side, but I don't think it's criminal. DIY is the way to go here.

I agree with what you said about internal speaker wiring (short runs). About half of the people I've done work for (PCB) have asked me to change it out for them, and I managed to talk all of them out of it.

[psg]

With all due respect, $10/ft. is also terribly expensive.

Yeah, I think so too -- I'm just saying it's not like spending $100 a foot!

The disconnect is interesting. In my field of work (oceanography), when we spend a few dollars per foot for 4-channel communication cable, it's rated for underwater use at high pressure with certain strain rates for pulling on it (few hundred pounds). And this is for a few dollars per foot.

Anything over 10$ a foot would be covered with "real" galvanized wire and rated to a few thousand pounds of strain. I would personnaly never spend $100 a foot of the tax payer's money on scientific comm cable. (It would be a 100K cable for a 1000 feet!).