Any basement crack repair experts? Or experiences with leaks/water from cracks?

[Jeff Matthews]

Okay. I think the crack-filler will be temporary because as was mentioned above, the edges where crack-filler and concrete meet will weather/erode. You'll be back putting more and more of the filler in. My original thought was a vapor barrier/water barrier (a big rubber mat). Sure enough, Picky sounds as happy as a lark, and he says that is what was done for him.

Picky, you need to find out and post exactly what kind of adhesive was used (brand name). Meagain, a laborer can dig the outside. Then, you can apply the rubber membrane. And, as Picky noted, I would protect it from the back-fill with foam board. All the materials will be cheap as dirt. You just need a laborer or 2. Sounds like a 2-3 day job.

I think you can count on adhesive lasting longer when applied to a smooth surface on the outside rather than a rough surface - the crack - on the inside or the outside. I wonder if they used Liquid Nails?

[Ray Garrison]

Just to reiterate this point:

ANY fix applied to the INSIDE of the foundation walls WILL NOT WORK. This would be like trying to patch a tire by putting a piece of tape on the outside of the tire. As soon as you start inflating it, the pressure will blow the tape off.

ANY company that suggests applying some sort of magic goop to the INSIDE foundation wall to stop the leak is a FRADULENT COMPANY. STAY AWAY FROM THEM.

I am embaressed to admit this, but long ago I spent a short time (not short enough) working for a "basement waterproofing company" that did this. I was given a kit that I carried to each lead. Kit had magic powder that would expand when it got wet, and a whole bunch of glossy handouts taking about how wonderful this product was. Idea was to demonstrate expansion of powder when wet, and explain how plastering this stuff into the crack in the wall would fix the leak as it expanded and sealed the wall. They kept score like we were playing golf, with par figures, bogies if we had to "do the drop" below a certain level, eagles if we were able to negotiate bonus dollars for extra services. Common ploy was to visit mark (uh, lead, excuse me), talk for awhile, hit them with some price X. If they bought, great! Eagle! Slam Dunk! Schwiiing! If they balked at price, take out cell phone, call "home office" (actually managers line, who would attempt to crack you up while on the phone by uttering all sorts of obscene suggestions) and ask if the "crew" that was "working on that job down the street" had finished yet, then "call the foreman". Surprisingly enough, they always had just finished, had some supplies left over, had billed the extra time to the previous job, and could do this job for something much less than X. I had no idea what I was getting into when I applied for the job, was in serious financial trouble at the time, had no choice but to actually go out on a few jobs. Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[JohnA]

The company is coming over tomorrow to look at it & give an estimate.

I mean, are you all saying that fixing the inside crack via injection, etc. is a waste of money if I don't do the outside at the same time? I'm sort of not seeing it. I can't do the outside now. IDK why they can't access the outside THROUGH the inside. You know? Just drill all the way through a bunch of times and inject the heck out of that then work backwards towards the inside?

So basically the crack below soil level is 7.5' tall. Very vertical. I'd say the max width is ?? 10 inches.

Meagain,

If you REALLY want to try coating the inside and injecting a sealer through a hole, I'll offer 2 other suggestions. After all of the injecting and sealing is done, including grout injection under the footing (mandatory) and dooing everything possible to drain water away from the house:

1 - You can use a gasoline powered auger and drill several 12" holes against the walls, spaced every 6 to 10 feet, and install a slotted PVC pipe surrounded by crushed stone or creek gravel. In each hole you can install a small submersible pump to remove the water. These are called unwatering wells. This might not be expensive and it is in the realm of DIY, but it requires electricity and routing the discharge pipes WAY away from the house.

2 - Another alternative might be to hire a directional drilling rig to bore a horizontal hole and install a geotextile covered perforated pipe down beside the footing. The ends will daylight and drain, but the fabric has a habit of clogging after a few years.

[Jeff Matthews]

I have heard mentions of these French drain ideas not being good solutions. I know I have heard comments that they really don't work. It will not hurt to try, but the bigger issue is to assume there will be water and then to prevent water from intruding.

I have a pond in my back yard that is lined with a thick rubber liner. If it's good enough to hold water in ponds, it must be good enough as a barrier around a basement wall. I'd use that stuff for sure, and I would find a good adhesive for rubber to concrete. Maybe Liquid Nails.

[cmdridq]

I mean, are you all saying that fixing the inside crack via injection, etc. is a waste of money if I don't do the outside at the same time?

Yes. I had a similar mindset to yours when I first started trying to solve these kinds of problems. Now I know better.

One other idea if you get desperate. You could make a hole in your basement floor next to the bottom of the crack so the water would drain into the hole instead of on your floor. Put a sump pump in the hole to get rid of the water when it started filling the hole. Of course, you would need to run a drain pipe outside for the water from the sump pump.

[picky]

Jeff: No way for me to find out the adhesive. The company went out of business when the owner retired a few years ago. It was definietly NOT Liquid Nails! It was a heavy, black, oil-based-looking compound. Not roofing cement either.

meagain:

On Sole Plates: These days, it's popular to use either pressure-treated 2" x 4" or 2" x 6" for a sole plate. It should be spaced, slightly away from the basement wall and anchored to the floor. Studs do not need to be pressure-treated as they do not touch the floor. Be sure to cut all pressure-treated wood out-of-doors. Many people choose to wear a painter's mask, while sawing. It's recommended not to burn pressure-treated scraps in a fireplace or campfire.

On Sewers: We hired a company to send a camera through our sewer lines under the basement floor. They captured it all on a videotape and it cost us $90. It was well worth it to certify that our sewers were intact and not clogged all the way back to the riser over the main.

[cmdridq]

While this will not prevent the water from coming in, one thing I did while remodeling was to install a subfloor in the "finished" room. "Dri-core" panels are 2'x2' wood panels with a plastic bottom which fit together and are very easy to install, and can be purchased at Menards or Home Depot. This will elevate your floor by 2" and keep your carpet dry when seepage occurs. You can then just pull your carpet back, wetvac up the seepage and your carpet stays dry.

How do you know when you just get minor amounts of seepage? I would be concerned about the area below your subfloor getting damp and mold growing in there.

[mark1101]

Meagin,

The picture you posted shows a lot trees. Have you cleaned the gutters of leaves? We live in the woods and the gutter channels (not downspouts) get plugged. Then, when it rains the water just pours over the gutter channels the entire length of the house draining right up against the building.

This time of year is not unusual to have the issue of water up against the house.

You can minimize the problem by having clean gutters and extending the downspouts well away from the house with extensions or black drain pipe. Obviously if the grade is toward the house you have a major problem. But, the cheapest thing to do is simply make sure water runs away from the house.

Go out in the rain / melting snow and walk around the house and watch where the water goes.

Once you get the water flowing away from the house, things should dry out some, and you can make an educated decision on if a major repair is necessary. It may dry out enough that you can let it ride, and just patch the inside. It sounds like you may have a leak that needs to be dug up and fixed from outside. But you really don't know for sure right now.

Now is the perfect time for you to get sucked into a major repair. If you don't have the simple stuff working correctly; clean gutters, and proper grade, then you won't know for sure if you have a really serious problem.

[jacksonbart]

The only way to really do it is to dig out the bottom of the foundation that is leaking and seal it from the outside. That would include also backfilling with drainage rocks and sand. Other alternative is to build an Ark.

[colterphoto1]

Another thing to consider in the 'moving water from the house' fixes is the type of soil up against the home. You want the soil properly graded down away from the house at a consistent slope for probably 10-20 feet at least. It is important that this grade be hard subsoil so water flows ON TOP of it away from the house. Mounds of nice fluffy compost and potting soil up against the home will allow any moisture present to run DOWN toward the basement level.

It's fine to landscape on top of the graded subsoil, but that slope should be made out of the same consistency hard pan or clay that the basement is dug into.

I'm facing doing this same thing myself, only my ranch home is basically built on grade, so I cannot build it up too much. You should not have soil above the bottom framing plate level of the walls.

M

[meagain]

OK - Depressing answers, but at least I can talk to this estimate guy more intelligently when he gives me my options. I guess we'll plan on some excavation in spring once I remove the plants. I've accumulated plants like Colter has accumulated old Klipsch. Not exactly stuff I can buy at Home Depot type or even without ordering thru mail and getting a baby version for big bucks. Hopefully, they can do something from the inside to hold me over till then. I appreciate all your answers and will save them. Thank you all!

[Rsoxfan]

Are you above or below the water table in your area?

[Gilbert]

Gilbert, the crack runs down to about 1" from the floor so.... From ground level to the bottom of crack is about 7-7.5 feet. I know there's a crack on the outside somewhere that extends way up which I'm sure wasn't fixed properly either. I'm going outside to confirm they are the same crack. Yep. Crack on outside extends from bottom of window corner all the way down to basement window corner where I can see the inside basement patch starting. So the whole house is cracked (a lannon stone type exterior). The outside above ground crack appears sealed. Yipes. I guess I can deal with excavation in that area (tho Jeff, it's not a matter of digging down 7 feet, it's a matter of width, where to put soil, etc).... But if I do have a drain tile issue, wouldn't it be financially and logistically prudent to do the whole 50 foot section of house at one time? The back of the house is on a slab so I guess I'm ok there.

The company is coming over tomorrow to look at it & give an estimate.

I mean, are you all saying that fixing the inside crack via injection, etc. is a waste of money if I don't do the outside at the same time? I'm sort of not seeing it. I can't do the outside now. IDK why they can't access the outside THROUGH the inside. You know? Just drill all the way through a bunch of times and inject the heck out of that then work backwards towards the inside?

So basically the crack below soil level is 7.5' tall. Very vertical. I'd say the max width is ?? 10 inches.

If a Contractor(s) is comming over MAKE SURE....

YOU KNOW HOW LONG HE HAS BEEN IN THE CONSTRUCTION BUSINESS.

YOUR CONTRACTOR IS INSURED.

YOU GET A LIST A REFERALS (5 MIN.) FROM YOUR CONTRACTOR AND FOLLOW UP WITH SOME PHONE CALLS. TRY AND READ HIS FACIAL EXPRESSION WHEN YOU ASK FOR THE REFERALS... Positive or Negative ??

YOU GET A WARRANTY IN WRITTING AND UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT THAT WARRANTY COVERS AND FOR HOW LONG.

HE PROVIDES YOU WITH A TIME ESTIMATE TO COMPLETE THE JOB, NO EXCUSES.

I can be relatively hard on contractor's, but believe me, it is with good reason. Residential contractors are literally a dime a dozen and even cheaper.

WITH REGARDS TO YOUR BASEMENT WALL

Is moisture seeping in ONLY at the crack? If so, then epoxy injection (I assume that's what will be proposed) will probably be a decent fix and buy you a few years or more of peace. But with time, the foundation will continue to move (it is normal for foundations to move slightly) and a new crack WILL form. Guaranteed.

If it were my house and I intended on staying there, I would excavate around the basement and anywhere else the outside grade/soil is above the Finished Floor Elevation, and apply an asphaltic mastic compound to the outside surface of the wall. It is not a difficult job, but it is messy and labor intensive.

Something else to consider is the time of year in your area, if it's cold and wet, then the asphaltic mastic may not stick as intended. I have seen some conciencious contractors build heated enclosures out of polyethlene. The asphaltic mastic will have to be applied from the top of footing (your foundation) to just above (6 inches or so) the finished grade elevation.

But whatever fix the contractor proposes, make sure you understand the work envolved, the time it takes to execute the proposed work, and the length of time the warranty covers the work he performed. I'm sorry to say this, but never trust a residential contractor, there are simply just too many bad ones out there to let your guard down for even 1 sec.

Good Luck

[meagain]

MM - I assume I'm above the water table? No clue about water tables. But we are basically on a hill.

Gilbert...... It's a local company that just deals with foundation/water issues. Permaseal. http://www.permaseal.net/ IDK - People told me to deal with them. Will likely get one more company here.

Yes - the water is only at the crack. Due to how the framing was designed, I can see up/down the entire 31-ish foot wall and see not a spec of dampness, etc. When the water comes, it comes right from the crack area which is why I popped the wall off only in that location. Yes, I think they'll want to epoxy inject. My guess. The area that will need excavation is right next an old window. Single pane, rusty metal rim, small, etc. There are 3 windows with small wells in this room and they are basically useless. I'd like to see a deck or patio where 2 are some day and the window by the crack would be the only one left. Hence - if they have to dig, I think I'd like a big easement type window with bigger well to allow light/air in if we can swing it. This makes sense to me and I'm going to run it by husband and see if we can plan this for spring/summer. Hopefully the repair can last 3 months without additional cracking but even if I have to pay for 6 months of peace only to have to redo it - sounds good to me cuz this is just plain killing us.

The straw was the breaking of the QPV style shopvac with pump (garden hose thing). We have to drag the vac through a maze of halls etc. to dump it out manually.

[meagain]

He wants to do injection of an epoxy thing. I thought it would be a viscous material but apparently its more like water to get into the hairlines. Then hardens pretty quick. There's no fine print to the warranty on this work. Lifetime. He says there is no need to deal with the outside of the crack. We talked about putting a large egress type window in the area so I guess when we do that - we can then deal with the outside of the crack, or perhaps it will be mostly eliminated with the new big window. He talked about a drainage system that would be installed around the INSIDE perimeter about 5" or so below the slab that will accomplish similar to out exterior drain deal. Will be around $5k to do that. IDK. Baby steps. The crack repair is $425. They won't be able to do it till Mid-Dec., but put us on a cancel list for sooner. Turns out he has incredible knowledge of building homes/serious remodeling and is giving us addresses for his homes he's designed and GC'd for. Hmmmm..... I'm more happy about that then the crack fix. We're pretty comfortable with the company. It's the best we can do for now I think. Will report back. Thank you everyone!

[Jeff Matthews]

Meagain, I did not read in detail, but I caught the plan to just fill with epoxy. Won't work. You got that crack because the house is moving. How much movement will it take before that crack separates from the epoxy?

[colterphoto1]

If you have water against your foundation (ie the seepage through a small crack), cutting a large egress type window is a BAD IDEA until you take care of the water at the foundation. It'll be like cutting a large hole in your roof- problem after problem.

Depending on the age of the house, the epoxy might hold you for a while, but is not a permanent solution. Water under pressure will find it's way in somewhere. You have to divert that water.

[mark1101]

That fix approach is a horrible idea. I would never take his approach. He wants to continue to eventually allow the water to leak into your house and put French drains INSIDE. NOT fixing the problem. Just removing the water that comes in.

In wet areas, new contruction usually puts them inside and outside the foundation and connects them together though the foundataion draining to an interior sump. A sump pump pumps the water out of the basement away from the house. However, this is just a backup system. The foundation parging / sealing and especially the grading and gutters are the primary systems to avoid the water up against the foundation. He's taking a big shortcut and the water collection could just get worse over time.

His injection bandaid will fail over time and the French drains become active. You'll have a "little stream" running around your interior basement foundation and a sump pool that runs and pumps regularly. We had the problem before. You are on the road to unhappiness.

You would be better off FOR NOW doing absolutely nothing but insuring the grading and guttter systems are working properly NOW. Once those systems are working and the ground has a chance to dry out you can evaluate if you have a water issue that requires digging.

You can go to Lowes or Home Depot and get the injection stuff yourself and do the job. You don't need him.

Good luck.

[meagain]

Well, we had the company repair the leak. It was a big deal and there's no way we could have done it ourselves. They took a handheld jackhammer/chissel tool and cut out 6' high by about 6" wide, 4" deep down the area, cleaned it all out to find the crack, then did all this stuff. IDK - I thought it was impressive and made sense. We've had some serious rains and there's not one drop. I realize and appreciate the concept of fixing it from outside, but I think this would have had to be done anyway and for $435 - it was a no-brainer.

But..... It poured & poured overnight and the window well filled with 1.5 feet of water which started coming in around the window. Same with another in the utility room. Naturally, this happens when my husband has to leave. Tossed a pond pump into the well to spit the water out 25' from the house. I see the problem with the gutters is the downspout seams. The joints appear to be ***-backwards IMO. I've been reading and see there are special caulks for gutter/downspout seams. I think this should have been done on install, but oh well.....

My goal is to seal these seams to see if it works, if not, then I'll have to hire someone to redo them - but I hate to do that since we're going to redo the whole house (roof, etc).

Anyhoo - does anyone have any experience with gutter caulk? I see some use silicone, some butyl (roofing?) caulk, etc. Maybe the epoxy stuff would work well. I have aluminum gutters and given it's winter, would desire one that can be applied on wet surfaces - or doesn't need a ton of drying time? Taking suggestions? Back to shop vac-ing. Just in time for Christmas! Wooo!

[Jeff Matthews]

Just use silicone caulk. If you're a perfectionist, make sure it is paintable, and you can paint to match gutters.

But more importantly, if the pieces of gutter were pieced backwards, why not just reverse the fit?