freddyi Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 to my old ears, any grill cloth has some effect and not always good - Heresy I sounds muffled with it on and shrill/spitty without it. Here's (1/12 octave smoothed) Hersey's 1's grill cloth effect on axis upon a piezo tweeter. Maybe off axis or another way to look would show something more - especially with a cavity (?).who here runs Klipsch w/o grill and how did you re-voice that particular speaker?HF absorption on-axis and up pretty closeagain, but with cloth closer to beiing flush to the horn's mouth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Same thing I found out last year playing around like you are. It's also one of the reasons I think the LaScala top sounds so different than a Klipschorn's even though the drivers are the same. How about changing to a grill cloth that's not quite so heavy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Freddy: That's my perception, too. I took the grille cloth off our Klipschorns, and refinished the tops so they are like La Scalas. I like it better that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Sheesh, I'm approaching 4,000 posts (!?) That's amazing to me. I need to do more 'doing' and less yapping about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyi Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 HI Dean,a light cloth might be the best tradeoff and K-horn imo sure could use it. La Scala 's bare horns (and maybe better path match and less folds from woofer to midhorn?) aways sounded more "immediate" to me than K-horn. Is the cloth from Parts Express ok? would a new top section have to be made for Klipschorn? (I don't want to pull its vintage cloth)hey Erik - got pic of the k- horn? (more time lost - haha) Freddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I'll look and post what I have. I think I have a couple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Can't see the midrange horn too, well, but that's what I've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyi Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 thank you very much - looks great. I suppose the cloth has to be removed - or does it sit in a frame?here's your pic lightened to see horns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 It was a time consuming process the way I did it. The entire top section was removed and taken apart, drivers removed from the baffle. Each staple was removed, and the subsequent staple holes filled and sanded flush. Then the entire assembly was primed, and then painted satin black. It's hard to see in the picture, but there is also a 'buffer' of sorts that runs around the full length of the baffle at top, bottom and side contact points with the rest of the top hat. That material is the 'loop' side of 3/4" hook-and-loop fastener. It made an excellent sort of 'gasket' to seat the baffle tightly and quietly. That little blemish inside the squawker is a slight casting flaw on this metal horn. Erik PS: Thanks for touching the picture up for me. Good job with that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Obviously , an industrial look doesn't bother me. I kind of like it and I married well. I have used several grills, and I believe that I can hear the difference. When it comes down to the nut-cutting, run up the SPL's to +/-120db, I always remove the cloth. Just gets in the way IMHO. tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundbound Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 No grill cloth in front of any of my speakers when I listen to them. You see how I did my Klipschorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfandbark Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 When I first joined this forum I asked the same question with regard to my Cornwalls. Got my chops busted for removing them..... If PWK wanted those speakers without grilles he would have sold them that way, I was told. That black weave cloth on my Cornwalls DOES hold back sonics. Was it intentional? I don't know. Do I care. Nah.... Do I remove them? YES! Once in a while when I want them to sing. Can't imagine what cane does for a pair or Heresys. But I'll be finding out soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 you won't like the cane grilles, it kills everything above 12K, sell them to me will ya, I need the firewood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I designed my grill clothes taking some ideas from the new Klipsch speakers setting the frame into rubber mounts 1/2" away from the cabinet to relieve high pressure loadings. I used a 1/2' thick ceiling square holed plastic frame painted black then applied black fibreglass screening over the frame and secured it with hot melt glue. The plastic bushings with 1/4" holes were glued to the frame and decorative 2 " x 1/4" diameter allen bolts were used to fasten the grills to the cabinet, screwing into rubber expandable mounts which necessitated drilling precise holes into the cabinets for the rubber mounts. Some of the holes had to penetrate the aluminum midrange horn flange, not a technique for the timid. luckily I did not drill a hole through the Cornwall crossover network. I then covered the black fibrelass screening with some real thin flowery holey cloth and glued it on the backside. Then got some 5/8" black plastic channel to cover the edges. Then painted everything with Corvette tobacco vinyl paint. Since I do not have golden ears the change in the upper end performance was not noticed. I did notice on the Cornwall that there was "0" movement of the grill gloth on heavy bass excursions, same as the RSW-12 Sub. I did not put grill cloths on the sides of the K-horns but just painted those areas black. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Sheesh.....just turn the volume up a little more. I think this is where PWK would throw you out of the house for suggesting removal of the grills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 The grille cloth can make a big difference in the sound. When I got my La Scalas, I didn't like the sound of them. Way too "shouty" and harsh in the midrange, plus the blotchy paint on the inside of the rough-cast K-400 didn't look too good. I had the tone controls set at -4dB on treble and +0.5 dB on the bass and still wasn't happy. I picked up some stretchy black grille cloth at a car stereo shop, then applied three thicknesses to the squawker horn and a single thickness to the tweeter. The cloth was stapled to the back side of the front panel after removing the squawker and tweeter, so it looks pretty tidy. The midrange was much improved, but the tweeter sounded muffled, so I removed the cloth from the tweeter. After settling on that, I was able to set the tone controls at "bypass" and get good clear sound. Since the muffling effect is much more noticeable at the higher frequencies, I'm guessing that the notorious 9KHz "bounce" of the K-55V is pretty well eliminated, plus there's about a 3dB reduction in volume. A mechanical way to get squawker high-end rolloff! The next steps were new caps and CT125 tweeters and I'm really happy with the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I'll bet that if you changed the networks to a more extreme slope version (like ALK) that would have fixed your problem....grills or no grills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 All the Heritage sans the Belles were available as decorator models without grill cloth. With my trachorns and 2404s, I made a pair of skeleton type grill supports with Parts Express grill cloth stretched across them. Works for me. [] Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyholiday Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Get the same gauge screen mesh, thats down in the throat of the horn ,that protects the driver,maybe a automotive radiator bug guard,an make a grill,heck all that screen dosen't hurt a thing[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 The grille cloth can make a big difference in the sound. When I got my La Scalas, I didn't like the sound of them. Way too "shouty" and harsh in the midrange, plus the blotchy paint on the inside of the rough-cast K-400 didn't look too good. I had the tone controls set at -4dB on treble and +0.5 dB on the bass and still wasn't happy. I picked up some stretchy black grille cloth at a car stereo shop, then applied three thicknesses to the squawker horn and a single thickness to the tweeter. The cloth was stapled to the back side of the front panel after removing the squawker and tweeter, so it looks pretty tidy. The midrange was much improved, but the tweeter sounded muffled, so I removed the cloth from the tweeter. After settling on that, I was able to set the tone controls at "bypass" and get good clear sound. Since the muffling effect is much more noticeable at the higher frequencies, I'm guessing that the notorious 9KHz "bounce" of the K-55V is pretty well eliminated, plus there's about a 3dB reduction in volume. A mechanical way to get squawker high-end rolloff! The next steps were new caps and CT125 tweeters and I'm really happy with the sound. .........The midrange was much improved......... What does that tell us about the mids? tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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