DrWho Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm all for protecting our hearing too... I was just trying to comment on how awesome the human brain / ears are in their ability to filter out the bad stuff - including our own deficiencies. Apparently some preferred to attack my writing and take my analogy too far. That's ok as long as they're having fun... Just outta curiousity - can you hear a difference if you completely remove the tweeter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Didn't Beethoven compose his Ninth Symphony (da da da dum), when he was stone deaf? LarryC please kindly make corrections as needed.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Didn't Beethoven compose his Ninth Symphony (da da da dum), when he was stone deaf?Yep, except da da da dum was the Fifth. Beethoven was terribly deaf by the time he wrote his Seventh in 1812, and supposedly completely deaf by 1815. He had to communicate by using "conversation books," where the visitor would have to write his/her side of the conversation and Beethoven would reply verbally (the books are used for information about the composer). Yet, he wrote the Ninth almost ten years later, completing it in 1824. His works always showed a phenomenal "mind's ear" imo, in which he apparently had no trouble hearing internally any combination of instruments he was writing. He was one of the very greatest of orchestrators, and his magic sense of how the combinations he was writing never left him even after having been stone deaf for over a decade. There are only a couple of places in the Ninth, such as a bassoon passage in the first movement, where it seems to me he clearly didn't recall how well the instruments would balance out in actual performance. There was a thinning out of his orchestral texture, but that wasn't necessarily due to his deafness imho. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFP Posted February 21, 2007 Author Share Posted February 21, 2007 Just outta curiousity - can you hear a difference if you completely remove the tweeter? Yes, Mike, I can tell a difference... it's subtle, but it's there nonetheless. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I grew up in Arlington, RFP, for all I know we might know each other, or have several mutual aquaintances.... Are you a 'member' of the D/FW Hornheads? Not a member but I hope to be able to crash the meeting in Plano if my schedule allows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted February 21, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm all for protecting our hearing too... I was just trying to comment on how awesome the human brain / ears are in their ability to filter out the bad stuff - including our own deficiencies. Apparently some preferred to attack my writing and take my analogy too far. That's ok as long as they're having fun... Just outta curiousity - can you hear a difference if you completely remove the tweeter? Mike, I know now what you were trying to say, I just read it the wrong way and took it as being flipent about hearing and I know now that was not your point at all. After seeing Parrot's chart last night I thought about disconnecting the tweeters, but now after seeing your post I am going to go ahead and do it for sure, if not tonight, real soon. RWP's hearing test shows him to have a great deal more upper end hearing then I do, mine is almost nil above 4k whereas he still had some, as I recall, all the way up to 7K. He said he noted a small difference, which tells me that I am not going to be able to tell much of anything. It will be interesting to see. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 What we need, I haven't been able to find online: a set of NORMAL hearing curves for various AGES and both GENDERS, and at a specified SPL. Anybody have this information? For example, what would the frequency response of well taken care of male ears at age 65 look like, at a standard (specified) SPL? And so forth, for other combinations of age and gender, perhaps in 5 year increments. ... And how does this compare to the ideal (young, nonsmoking, well taken care of, female ears)? I don't pretend to know about the standards of audiology, but is the 0 line (or 0 curve, if you will) that audiologists use (at whatever their standard SPL is) is normalized, compensating for normal sag? I hope so, because but according to the Fletcher-Munsen data, and more up to date curves I can't find, EVERYONE'S hearing sags at the frequency extremes, except at the highest musically plausible SPLs (peaks), and even there a bit. It is with this curve, attenuated at the extremes, that we listen to live music, and form our conceptions of realistic reproduction. I vaguely recall that age adjusted curves are in the 1980s revision of Seminal Papers on Human Hearing (long out of print), but I can't find it to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-06/962288755.Me.r.html Gary, According to this interesting post I've linked to, it isn't age itself that matters, it's what the subject has been exposed to, and possibly general health and diet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Your hearing like your sight diminishes with age...............post all the articles you want.............time will tell the truth........I know you younger guys are laughing now, but you won't be in 20 years....................HUH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Your hearing like your sight diminishes with age...............post all the articles you want.............time will tell the truth........I know you younger guys are laughing now, but you won't be in 20 years....................HUH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, right. Next thing you're going to say is our sex drives and abilities diminish with age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Your hearing like your sight diminishes with age...............post all the articles you want.............time will tell the truth........I know you younger guys are laughing now, but you won't be in 20 years....................HUH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, right. Next thing you're going to say is our sex drives and abilities diminish with age. YOURS HASN'T ????????? What's up Parrot...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I haven't had my hearing tested professionally but with a test cd at about 85spl I can hear from 19hz to 12.5 khz. I can't hear a thing above 12.5khz no matter how loud I crank it. My age is 65.5 but I do remember at about 30 I could hear to 16.4khz. The equalizer is set to +6db at 30hz and -2db at 200-400hz and flat to 20khz. The tone controls are set at 1/4 turn past flat pointing full East. Supposedly teenagers can hear to 18khz. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Due just to age, at 8,000 hz from age 15 to age 65 you lose over 40db of sound if you are male. Over 20db if you are female. http://www.roger-russell.com/hearing/hearing.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 What we need, I haven't been able to find online: a set of NORMAL hearing curves for various AGES and both GENDERS, and at a specified SPL. Anybody have this information? For example, what would the frequency response of well taken care of male ears at age 65 look like, at a standard (specified) SPL? And so forth, for other combinations of age and gender, perhaps in 5 year increments. ... And how does this compare to the ideal (young, nonsmoking, well taken care of, female ears)? I don't pretend to know about the standards of audiology, but is the 0 line (or 0 curve, if you will) that audiologists use (at whatever their standard SPL is) is normalized, compensating for normal sag? I hope so, because but according to the Fletcher-Munsen data, and more up to date curves I can't find, EVERYONE'S hearing sags at the frequency extremes, except at the highest musically plausible SPLs (peaks), and even there a bit. It is with this curve, attenuated at the extremes, that we listen to live music, and form our conceptions of realistic reproduction. I vaguely recall that age adjusted curves are in the 1980s revision of Seminal Papers on Human Hearing (long out of print), but I can't find it to check. see my previous post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Supposedly teenagers can hear to 18khz. JJK Supposedly? At 39 I can hear 12khz the same as 1khz using a cd with step tones (set as 1khz at 75dbs as a base). My left ear rolls off above that but but I can still detect sounds to 16khz with it. My right ear can detect sounds to 18khz. Having my hearing professionally tested is high on my agenda. It would be nice to know the specific roll off values at which frequencies. Protect your hearing! When it's gone, it's gone forever. Wear ear plugs when using machinery including mowing the lawn. I know someone that goes so far as to wear hearing protection when vaccuming. At 40 he can still hear 18khz just fine with both ears. Another tip, keep the drivers side window closed when driving. Use the air conditioner or open a window away from the driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Didn't Beethoven compose his Ninth Symphony (da da da dum), when he was stone deaf? LarryC please kindly make corrections as needed.[] Is "stone deaf" different than "rock deaf"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Due just to age, at 8,000 hz from age 15 to age 65 you lose over 40db of sound if you are male. Over 20db if you are female. So the most avid of audiophiles should pursue a sex change if they wanna maintain their pristine hearing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Parrot already tried that, it didn't work. Looks like I picked the right time to go to a two-way. In a few years I can run my horns with no EQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 "I think it's a huge mistake to assume that just because your HF response is down 20dB at 12KHz or something that you can't tell the difference between good and bad electronics and components." My local audio buddy Dan, is 72 and has roll-off at 12 kHz with his hearing. But yet he's played with audio gear so long that he could notice certain things in the HF response of a amplifier that I couldn't. I'm not much better at 14.5 kHz. I hope I can hear to 12 kHz when I'm 72.......but it ain't lookin' that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 BTW, asthmatics ( I am / was one ) have hearing that is more acute, and some can hear frequencies above 20 khz. I know I can hear a television that is on in a room, even with no sound on, depending where I am in the room, it is almost painful in spots. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_hearing Human hearing is recognised as having an upper bound around 17-20 kHz, depending on the person, but ultrasonic sinusoids as high as 120 kHz have been reported as successfully perceived. This is a good read also, I think one of my nephews suffers from this: http://www.hyperacusis.net/hyperacusis/what+is+hyperacusis/default.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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