meagain Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Asking the players..... Did you buy today? Speculation on tomorrow? I've not looked at the foreign markets tonight. I had sitting funds in online accts so I bought a bit. IDK. I used to play with stocks every day (day/swing trading) and miss this form of online gambling. Think it'll pop up tomorrow or having another down day or 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Lower at some point tommorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I think tomorrow the Dow will be down 50. Then it will be flat for the rest of the week. Beginning of next week it will go back up a bit. Let's see how my guess plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Buy when you have the money*, sell when you need the money**. Never time the market***. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> * This point of advice only works when you have a steady stream of income that exceeds your expenses. **You should have enough invested that you would never need to sell all of your investments at one time (term insurance). Always keep 6 months of expenses in cash. *** Never buy load mutual funds. Buy no load index funds if your not sure, when your assets reach a certain level, individual stocks make sense with sound research. Save for your retirement ahead of your child's education. They can always borrow for education, no one will lend you money for retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 The thing that really worried me was the reformation of the President's Working Group about 10 days ago. I took precautions because of this... Commonly known as the "Plunge Protection Team", the last time this group formed was 7 years ago when you know what happened. Didn't everyone see this coming?... I guess not. Get ready for interesting times... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 Pauln - I've no clue what that is. Cliffnotes version? I thought the market dropped due to Asia's situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I believe this to be a normal adjustment......nothing to get worried about...BUY if you got the money, RELAX if you don't..!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 The derivitive thing has me worried. The last bailout because of derivitives was 100 billion (Paid by Federal government courtesy of congress) and it almost brought down the entire financial system. Why? nobody knows who owns what and the whole dam thing falls down like a house of cards. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Buy when you have the money*, sell when you need the money**. Never time the market***. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> * This point of advice only works when you have a steady stream of income that exceeds your expenses. **You should have enough invested that you would never need to sell all of your investments at one time (term insurance). Always keep 6 months of expenses in cash. *** Never buy load mutual funds. Buy no load index funds if your not sure, when your assets reach a certain level, individual stocks make sense with sound research. Save for your retirement ahead of your child's education. They can always borrow for education, no one will lend you money for retirement. excellent advice JB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Pauln - I've no clue what that is. Cliffnotes version? I thought the market dropped due to Asia's situation. The official name of the team is the President's Working Group on Financial Markets. It was created by Executive Order 12631 on March 3, 1988 and signed by President Ronald Reagan. The members include the President, the Secretary of the Treasury, the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, the Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, and the Chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. This group artificially props up the market to give investors the false illusion that all is well with the stock market and the economy. Its purpose is to establish the protocols for preventing another incident similar to the stock market crash of 1987. In the event of a steep decline, the team is prepared to buy large amounts of equities in an effort to stabilize the market. Only the President of the US can command the close of US markets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 *** Never buy load mutual funds. Buy no load index funds if your not sure, when your assets reach a certain level, individual stocks make sense with sound research. Save for your retirement ahead of your child's education. They can always borrow for education, no one will lend you money for retirement. I can't agree with the never buy load funds, but then again, I've got a predisposition there. I will make the comment that, if you are buying "no load" funds, do you think you are not being charged ANYTHING? If you don't feel you are being charged anything, how would you suppose they are paying their for salaries, benefits, electric bills, trading costs and coffee cups? With that disclaimer out of the way, the comment about the Index funds... We've got several funds we've picked (out of the American Funds) and not only have most of them beat the index returns (using 1,3,5 year averages), they SOUNDLY beat the index. This isn't to say that they'll do it again or that they're the right fund for anyone and this isn't a solicitation to buy nor sell (and all those disclaimers) I just like to see some of the numbers on the table so that anyone reading them can make a fair comparison. Regarding load funds, I'd make the suggestion to never buy "B" shares. I've always thought that it made more sense paying the load up front, get it out of the way and if ever you sell then "what you see is what you get". If you invest in "B" shares, yes, they DO convert to "A" shares after a number of years but if you read the prospectus, you will notice that their expenses are higher and that comes out of the investors pocket. Oh... and "B" shares usually have a higher "12-B1" expense. Anyone care to guess what a 12B-1 expense is and what is done with it? (aside from Roger & Speakerdoc, or anyone else exposed to the industry) You do make a good point IMHO, that if you have enough assets, then specific stocks can make sense too. Your other comments are excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merkin Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Pauln, Has it ever been used and when? 1998?, 2001? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Here is the original peice that brought it to light back in '97 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/longterm/blackm/plunge.htm relating how it operates and giving some history up to '97 As to what they do, have done, can do, or will do... variance of opinion on that. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plunge_Protection_Team for suspicions and skeptics of price support. My point of mentioning them is that after a seven year hiatus they reformed if I recall correctly on FEB-17. Since their job is to address stock market crashes, I took this as a bad omen. The conventional "news" is reporting the market action that occurred 10 days later as an unpredictable surprise. To me it's like if the fire department showed up at your home and you asked "where's the fire?"; and they said, "Right here in about 15 minutes..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 *** Never buy load mutual funds. Buy no load index funds if your not sure, when your assets reach a certain level, individual stocks make sense with sound research. Save for your retirement ahead of your child's education. They can always borrow for education, no one will lend you money for retirement. I can't agree with the never buy load funds, but then again, I've got a predisposition there. I will make the comment that, if you are buying "no load" funds, do you think you are not being charged ANYTHING? If you don't feel you are being charged anything, how would you suppose they are paying their for salaries, benefits, electric bills, trading costs and coffee cups? With that disclaimer out of the way, the comment about the Index funds... We've got several funds we've picked (out of the American Funds) and not only have most of them beat the index returns (using 1,3,5 year averages), they SOUNDLY beat the index. This isn't to say that they'll do it again or that they're the right fund for anyone and this isn't a solicitation to buy nor sell (and all those disclaimers) I just like to see some of the numbers on the table so that anyone reading them can make a fair comparison. Regarding load funds, I'd make the suggestion to never buy "B" shares. I've always thought that it made more sense paying the load up front, get it out of the way and if ever you sell then "what you see is what you get". If you invest in "B" shares, yes, they DO convert to "A" shares after a number of years but if you read the prospectus, you will notice that their expenses are higher and that comes out of the investors pocket. Oh... and "B" shares usually have a higher "12-B1" expense. Anyone care to guess what a 12B-1 expense is and what is done with it? (aside from Roger & Speakerdoc, or anyone else exposed to the industry) You do make a good point IMHO, that if you have enough assets, then specific stocks can make sense too. Your other comments are excellent. If you want to give someone 5% of your investment upfront or possibly in arrears (CDSC)/higher expenses then by all means go for it. I guess it makes sense to buy load funds if you would not invested at all. To each thier own. 12b1s (typically 25bps, to "cover marketing expenses" incured by the broker) are monthly or quarterly payments that go to the brokers based on thier clients average assets, some times its based on some type of aging of the assets (some so complicated its absurd), some times the payment calculation is immediate. Many funds pay more than 25bps to thier brokers. True, expenses always matter since they are taken from your assets, but take a look at say Vanguard and compare thier expenses to American Funds. American Funds have out performed since 2002, because they were not heavily invested in Tech, consequently the underperformed prior to that and so did not suffer from the tech bubble as other funds did. Will they guess right in the future? Don't know. Performance matters, obviously bad performance and high expenses are a double whammy. BTW 2/3rds of all active managed funds fail to beat their indexes every year. So you right some will for a few years, but it catches to every one eventually, remember PBHG funds? No? You don't need to smarter than the market to be finacially secure, just as smart, start investing early and often, keep a realistic opinion of returns and the longer time horizon the better. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMays Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I was not in a position yesterday and I thought it would baunce back further than it did yesterday as well. I.E. I could not transfer funds fast enough. In anticipation for a market correction, I transfered 1/2 of my 401K into a cash posotion last month! I may just "buy" today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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