meagain Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 Sheltie - Yes, I have extra tubes and usually have fuses, but I ran out of the extra fuses. I'm heading to Radio Shack as soon as they open. Then call ComEd. "Isolation Transformer"? Yet a new word. I swear these power gadgets have so many names and do different things, and I've yet to get a handle on what specific features I'd need. Power conditioner, voltage regulator, surge protector, and now isolation transformer. LOL I need to specifically figure out what gadget I would need... mostly the concept of spending ??? $400 and up on a gadget so I can run amps might be a line-cross. If I have to spend say $500 on this... I can't help but think I could take that $500, and instead invest it towards a decent SS amp. I've never had electrical problems like this in my life in either of my 2 main life dwellings. Just seems to me that SS doesn't require these gadgets. It's on a surge protector so IDK what happened. If I had a big surge, I'd think it would tripped, but apparently..... IDK... I had taken readings over a couple days at all hours of the wall voltage and wrote them down. The highest was 124. When I heard this noise, the reading I dashed to find was 126.0. I need to find out if that's an end of the world number. And, I heard this noise as I was walking out the door so I was away from it. I couldn't describe the sound, etc. and for all I know, it was a big branch landing on the roof and rolling down, but I'm convinced it was an audio groan. The amp was on when I turned it off. Just on start up - dead. As is the case basically every time. So is 126 on a surge protector very bad or no? Dean - Yes I retentioned a while back. I thought retentioning wasn't your issue and the issue was when you bought your Furman power gadget - everything was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 sorry to hear about your troubles, but there are plenty of alternatives out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 i try and set the bias to .715, but it will drift anywhere from .698-.723vdc. once the bias is set don't worry about it everytime you listen to them. they are never going to be exact and it will drive you crazy. in the summer with everyone running their A/C there will be a voltage drop to your house. don't let it get the best of you.danny For instance, Sunday (I think), I went to check bias and they were very low. Like .5??. At these times, I check the voltage at the wall cuz I fear while turning them up drastically (from .5 to .7) might work for that particular time, I feared the culprit for them being low was some drop at the wall which is why I checked. I can only gather that between Sunday's .5 then rebias to .70, maybe I got more power to the house. Last night I checked bias on the good amp and I had a .8 which freeked me out. The last recommendation I had was to keep the bias at .65 to allow for any voltage increase. I contend this doesn't sound as good but that's what I was tending to stay at. 99% of the time when the bias moves - it moves down. IDK, maybe it's the tubes. I'm going to have to invest in a pricey gadget if I want to keep these aren't I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I usually just turn my amps on and listen. I have had one 6SN7 tube go microphonic on me in four years. I hope you get your situation resolved. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Here is the ULTIMATE solution to your power woes: I had very LOW voltage in my older neighborhood (102-105 volts during peak hours) which caused my CD player to HUMMMM like a banshee. The P300 Power Plant CURED the problem FOREVER! This new unit can power your entire system! http://www.psaudio.com/products/premier_power_plant.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Lisa, As mentioned in many words and posts here, your bias should not be drifting, your fuses should not keep blowing, and your tubes should not be going bad. Get your amps fixed and then buy some quality tubes. I bought my "cheap Chinese crap", set the bias, and never needed to touch it. I bought my Eico - plugged it in and am still running many of the same tubes from 1959 - output tubes were new 4 or 5 years ago. I bought my Dynaco's, set the bias and left them alone. IOW, your issue isn't tube amps, your issue is your amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 i try and set the bias to .715, but it will drift anywhere from .698-.723vdc. once the bias is set don't worry about it everytime you listen to them. they are never going to be exact and it will drive you crazy. in the summer with everyone running their A/C there will be a voltage drop to your house. don't let it get the best of you. danny For instance, Sunday (I think), I went to check bias and they were very low. Like .5??. At these times, I check the voltage at the wall cuz I fear while turning them up drastically (from .5 to .7) might work for that particular time, I feared the culprit for them being low was some drop at the wall which is why I checked. I can only gather that between Sunday's .5 then rebias to .70, maybe I got more power to the house. Last night I checked bias on the good amp and I had a .8 which freeked me out. The last recommendation I had was to keep the bias at .65 to allow for any voltage increase. I contend this doesn't sound as good but that's what I was tending to stay at. 99% of the time when the bias moves - it moves down. IDK, maybe it's the tubes. I'm going to have to invest in a pricey gadget if I want to keep these aren't I? I am sorry to hear about your troubles, but maybe an engineer could chime in here about the voltage fluctuations. My understanding is that a power supply in the amp should be able to handle these "bumps and bruises (of a few volts) if it is adequately designed and working properly. If the folk wisdom is that you need to get an expensive power conditioner/transformer/etc, I would be wary of that advice (I am all for surge protection but that is a different issue). Voltage fluctuations are a fact of life. Engineers are aware of them and design the power supplies with this in mind. Good Luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Meagain, You should call Craig and let him help you troubleshoot those amps. Once you know what failed then you can persue the solution. Right now you do not even know what failed. Like others have said you shouldn't be having these issues. My VRDs perform like all the others here say.....very little maintenance and a rare tube failure once in a long while. Yours should be no different. But you should have Craig help you figure out what failed. I also agree that the simple maintenance of re-tensioning the sockets is worth the few minutes it takes. You may want to clean them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 Alan - That was one of the ones on my list when I was searching around. I figured if I had to get one, I wanted something handsome with blue lights. The curved front throws me a bit though. I don't recall what price point that one's at but I think they're pretty spendy. PrestonTom - I agree with you. This is what my gut's telling me. Mark1101 - Yes, I got the boxes back from Smilin recently and was due to send them in after AKFest. I have Coytee's tweeters and felt I needed to delay shipping a bit so I could properly listen to them. Basically what's happening now is that Craig got pissed at me and I got pissed at him so I'm holding off for now. Heading out for fuses, then will assess any tube loss, then bias low, and call electric company and search around forums for more answers to voltage swings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 "I figured if I had to get one, I wanted something handsome with blue lights. The curved front throws me a bit though. I don't recall what price point that one's at but I think they're pretty spendy." About $2200 for that model. The little ones from PS Audio won't have enough wattage to run a pair of tube amps. Really shouldn't need it though. Shawn P.S. When you check bias are you doing it with music playing or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 Sound is off when I check bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Are you letting everything warm up before checking bias? You should wait at least 5 or 10 minutes before checking it. With my Dynacos I typically ran them for about 30 minutes before really setting bias. If not the tubes won't be fully warmed up, the IRCL won't be fully warmed up...etc..etc and the bias will change as everything warms up. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 How many times has this happened now? How many times have the folks on this forum told you to send the amps in for a checkup? How many times have I asked, begged, pleaded and whined for you to send them in for a check up? Was it not suggested at the time of purchase? How many hours have I spent on the phone with you? You emailed me yesterday for help. Did you wait a reasonable amount of time for a reply? Nope within minutes you start yet another thread that will do no good what so ever to solve your problem. For Christ sakes you didn't even buy the amps from me and I've bent over and did a double flip to help you! Numorous threads like this is the thanks I have received. You have wore your welcome out with me at least for the near future. No one else is having these gross issues. You tend to mis quote your tube usage and time frames. You've had your current set of tubes since December and most likely have ran them 24/7 again. It's fairly obvious something is wrong some where and you think it will solve itself ?? The bias fluctuation your reporting is an absolute sign of a problem and I seriously doubt it has anything to do with wall voltage fluctuation. Yes seriously high wall voltage will be hard on tubes if you bias them when the wall voltage is at the very lowest time of the day and then let them run 24/7. Which happened to be the REAL problem at Dean's house not the tube sockets. Dean was biasing the amps at a time when the Wall voltage 124V and then it was rising to a whopping 131V which would cause the output tubes to exceed the plate dissipation ratings by a pretty good margin. This could be solved by lowering the bias or a regulation device like he purchased. Dean has had problems with just about every piece of tube gear he has owned and it took 5 years for him to find out why. Heck his house blows light bulbs at an alarming rate. Your problem is almost surely some thing else besides wall voltage. What is the problem? I have test equipment and a work bench for that kind of diagnostics it's really too bad you have refused to take advantage of it time and again. Guessing over the INTERNET is a crap shoot that I have little time to waste on. By the way I advised you to turn the bias down because you once again found another reason not to send the amps in so the problem could be either found or eliminated as an amp problem. I'm on a long self imposed vacation from this place just to much bullsh!t flying around for me but thought this thread needed some attention. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 They're warm cuz I'm afraid to turn them off now cuz turning them on and finding one not working seems to be the main issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 If the options are: 1.) Keep buying new things until something fixes an undefined problem; or, 2.) send the amp to the builder to figure out the problem and fix it why wouldn't you go with option #2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Lisa, Your VRD's have had problems for some time and I know Craig has recommended having them fixed for a long time. Whether he is pissed at you or you are pissed at him, you have but two choices. Send him the amps and have them fixed or sell them to someone else who will. The bottom line is Craig hates to hear any criticism of his VRD's and will bend over backwards to fix them so he doesn't see any criticism of them or his work. Denying him the opportunity to remedy the situation will only piss him off and will keep you complaining and unable to truly enjoy your amplifiers. By not having them fixed and continuing to post they are problematic, you harm the amps and Craigs reputation. He, justifiably, is pissed and frustrated. Craig just told your two things that are, in my opinion, on the money and others have mentioned as well: your wall voltage is not the problem and the bias drifting indicates a real problem. Tubes, fuses, and power conditioners won't solve that - Craig will. Craig and I butt heads anytime we speak to each other but one thing is certain, if I had VRD's and had your problems, those amps would have already been shipped to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 How many times has this happened now? How many times have the folks on this forum told you to send the amps in for a checkup? How many times have I asked, begged, pleaded and whined for you to send them in for a check up? Was it not suggested at the time of purchase? How many hours have I spent on the phone with you? You emailed me yesterday for help. Did you wait a reasonable amount of time for a reply? Nope within minutes you start yet another thread that will do no good what so ever to solve your problem. For Christ sakes you didn't even buy the amps from me and I've bent over and did a double flip to help you! Numorous threads like this is the thanks I have received. You have wore your welcome out with me at least for the near future. No one else is having these gross issues. You tend to mis quote your tube usage and time frames. You've had your current set of tubes since December and most likely have ran them 24/7 again. It's fairly obvious something is wrong some where and you think it will solve itself ?? The bias fluctuation your reporting is an absolute sign of a problem and I seriously doubt it has anything to do with wall voltage fluctuation. Yes seriously high wall voltage will be hard on tubes if you bias them when the wall voltage is at the very lowest time of the day and then let them run 24/7. Which happened to be the REAL problem at Dean's house not the tube sockets. Dean was biasing the amps at a time when the Wall voltage 124V and then it was rising to a whopping 131V which would cause the output tubes to exceed the plate dissipation ratings by a pretty good margin. This could be solved by lowering the bias or a regulation device like he purchased. Dean has had problems with just about every piece of tube gear he has owned and it took 5 years for him to find out why. Heck his house blows light bulbs at an alarming rate. Your problem is almost surely some thing else besides wall voltage. What is the problem? I have test equipment and a work bench for that kind of diagnostics it's really too bad you have refused to take advantage of it time and again. Guessing over the INTERNET is a crap shoot that I have little time to waste on. By the way I advised you to turn the bias down because you once again found another reason not to send the amps in so the problem could be either found or eliminated as an amp problem. I'm on a long self imposed vacation from this place just to much bullsh!t flying around for me but thought this thread needed some attention. Craig Oh great... just when I'm running out the door. I would've sent them back long ago if these special boxes weren't so critical. I just got the boxes from Smilin recently and when I was ready, you told me to wait till after AKFest. Oh heck Craig, much of those phone calls was some gabbing, and for gosh sakes - you take everything so personally. Clearly the bent of the thread(s) is electricity/voltage issues. Fine - I got pissed at the tubes (really really pissed) and let out a rant thread. I can't unwind that now, but I feel you take this so personally and as a shot against you and I think that's wrong. Then you lash out in your special way. And you know it had spells of working fine which gave me the impression it was electrical/wall. No, I've not run the tubes 24/7 since buying the last set of kt88's. Only when I blew more tubes did I stop shutting them off and that was recently. I just bought rectifiers 1.5-2 months ago cuz I had another blow. 'Now' you think it's not electrical? That's new! Mostly it's been 'yea, send them in but I bet a zillion bucks it's not the amps cuz you would be the first' which doesn't exactly make me urgently drive to Smilin's for the darned boxes and made me look at electrical as the issue (which might still be). I 'did' turn the bias down to .65. Two Tauruses fighting... oh fun! I'll just use my AVR. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Which happened to be the REAL problem at Dean's house not the tube sockets. I had three brand new output tubes from two different vendors run away and take out the 5AR4 because of arcing, which I clearly saw after I put Doug's tubes in. After I retensioned the sockets, I didn't have any more problems. I only asked Lisa if she had done it to rule it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 When I posted, I was thinking Lisa already had sent both amps to Craig for the checkup, and they were fine. Had I known they had not already visited Craig, I would have driven the 15 miles out of my way when I went to Craig's house a month ago with four tube amps, and picked the VRDs up as well. Plenty of room in the party wagon. As Seinfeld noted, lunacy is the expectance of a different outcome when George keeps doing what he is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 Sheltie - Actually, I did post something about that concept when you said you were headed to Craigs. I didn't persue it cuz I didn't want to impose but yes, the thought of them not going thru UPS was intrigueing. Then I held off a bit cuz there was talk back in January/Feb? of Craig & Dean going to visit Smilin to help set up the SmilinWalls & deliver amps? and I thought maybe I could hand off the VRDs to Craig at that time.... I think that fell through. But I did send Smilin pre-paid UPS labels to get those boxes here and got them around a month? ago.... then AK fest screwed up the plans. Now we're fighting. I know if I sell them, I need them inspected. Ok ok - maybe I shouldn't have posted, but I really freeked! But I'm sorry, wall votage or not - I'm going to need alot of convincing that tubes aren't a real PITA. I mean... it seems even buying new ones can find their specs out of whack. And NOS types seem nothing less than a crap shoot/finger cross. I'm just going to use my AVR or get my Nak Stasis amp back from a friend that I've never even heard yet which might not be too shabby. Case closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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