two dot Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 OK, you guys have me really dying to try out some tubes with my Cornwalls. I know there are a lot of VRD fans here... I think I will go with the Mc C220 in either case. Will I experience the same "transformation" with the Mc as the VRD's? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Two dot, if you take an economic view, you can't lose with the 275. If you are getting it for the music, the VRDs will best the 275. Both are superb, but the Mac's balance seemed to be weighted heavily to the upper bass, and lumbering relative to the VRDs. The transformation is stunning even with some of the lowly and more pedestrian gear. The extra money gets you the looks, engineering, reliability, and truly world class performance with either choice. I have run my VRDs with a Mac C20 and MX110, and they worked quite well. In the end, I had too much $$$ tied up in the Mac gear, so the MX110 is with a forum member in Arkansas, and the C20 and its companion MC240 are with a forum lurker in St. Louis. A Juicy Music Blueberry is the preamp in my main system with the VRDs, and I can't be any happier. There are a number of similar systems about now. You are probably near a member who would be glad to have you over for a personal listening demo to help you decide. Good luck with the shopping process! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two dot Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 Very nice thoughtful response.... Thank you Anyone else??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 From what I have read the VRDs are a tube rollers dream allowing you to try many flavors of tubes. I went to the NOSValves site and copied the following. Valve Rollers Dream! The amps can run EL34, 6L6GC, 5881, 350B, KT66, KT88, 6550, KT90 and more (some tube choices require a 5U4GB rectifier tube) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 the VRDs I heard briefly on Mike Lindsay's modified LaScalas were among the best amps I have ever heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I have heard a few tube power amps. VRDs I am biased toward since I have spent allot of time with Craig since he began building them in his home and at AK Fest. He also has improved all of my vintage tube amps. If the MC 275 is stock, I would go with the VRDs. You can spend allot of money on improving the Mc gear and maybe get to the performance of the VRD, but does the Mc gear lose value when modded?I do not know enough about Mc gear to say for sure. When Colin made his post my first though was about VRD bass weight. Many non tubies think rolled off or bloom in the bass is unavoidable and undesireable in tubes. VRDs have excellent bass weight with no bloom. They do all the other objectives extremely well also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I would hook up the VRD's and then play Dire Strait's Brothers in Arms followed by Jewel's Gray Matter. Then disconnect the VRD's and connect the MC275. Rinse and Repeat. [^o)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two dot Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 I would hook up the VRD's and then play Dire Strait's Brothers in Arms followed by Jewel's Gray Matter. Then disconnect the VRD's and connect the MC275. Rinse and Repeat. [^o)] Ok, send me BOTH amps,... and I will do just that!!! Oh, BTW, please send a pre amp too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I have some pristine MC60's, and I must confess that my VRD's sound considerably better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two dot Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 Interesting, thanks. I have sent craig a email to see what we might can do. Keep the opinions coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 I have some pristine MC60's, and I must confess that my VRD's sound considerably better. What Gilbert said. Many classic designs are great amps, and the final decision should be made by your ears and not by prestige or reputation. In my case, of the classic designs, I prefer the "Marantz" sound to the Mac sound. That being said, I sold my beloved Marantz 8B after I found a pair of VRDs that I loved. Of course, the caveat of my ears, my equipment, my speakers, yada, yada, etc. And some really love the sound of the MC 275 or similar Macs. We all have different preferences. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Interesting, thanks. I have sent craig a email to see what we might can do. Keep the opinions coming. FYI, Craig is off fishing in the deep woods Canada right now, and won't be back until June 1st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Ok, send me BOTH amps,... and I will do just that!!! Oh, BTW, please send a pre amp too!!! Where do you live two dot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two dot Posted May 26, 2007 Author Share Posted May 26, 2007 I am in Southern California... thats part of the problem. It is a bit of a "tube wasteland" out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 You're in the hot bed of horns and tube audio Surely you are joking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 You're in the hot bed of horns and tube audio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 two dot How did you come up with these two to compare? Most of the time I see folks comparing VRDs to Pcats. I find all these amps difficult to compare. You really have to listen to them in senerios that are close to how you would listen to them at home. If you shop watts, you get one set of players. If you shop price, you get another set. If you shop USA made, yet another set of players. As you jump from forum to forum, opinions vary. I can say the on this forum, there is greater involvement from the makers of the VRD's and Pcats than you will find anywhere for any other brand of tube amp. I think that is a big plus. Just curious, because while many like the sound of the MC275, there are 4 versions. Pirce wise, when I was looking, the 4 versions did not seem too far apart. A like new MC275 series 4, often can be had for $3000. I was looing for a second tube amp, and figured for the price of a new MC-275, I could get a used MC-2102. The MC-2102 is 100 watts per channel, self baising, uses 8 KT-88 ouput tubes, 4 12AX7's and 4 12AT7's. I intially was set on buying an MC-275, but noticed MC-2102's where withing 500 bucks of the 275's. Sellers of used MC-275's, all versions, perceive a used MC-275 is worth close to that number. There is also a limited edition 275 that runs for 5K. I would accept an MC-275 as a gift, but quite honestly, can't see paying 3000k for it. Had Mcintosh not released the MC-2102, one may not have any other Mcintosh choice. Hopefully prices for the MC-275 will settle as more and more owners of the MC-275 move to the MC-2102. Also worth mentioning. I bought some Cary CAD-50 Sl mono blocks last year for 500 bucks the pair. These were class A amps built during th early 90's. The sound character was close to an MC-2102 or MC-2000 at moderate volume levels, but a higher volume levels, the MC-2102 and MC-2000 just left the Cary CAD-50's behind. Point being, if a 15 year old used unmodified off the shelf tube amp that you could get for 500 bucks can go head to head with an MC-2102, there is certainly other options out there worth considering. I sold the CAD-50's for 600. The buyer put the pair on audiogon a few days later and sold them for 1000. At some point, I think I would love to listen to some VRD's, Pcats, MC60's, and Mark III's, but I think each as a unique sound, and the 75 watts per channel of the MC-275, might get in the way of an evaluation criteria. I like the report that compared the VRD to the MC60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two dot Posted May 28, 2007 Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 Thanks for the reply Speakerfritz, Not trying to rule out any of the other amps mentioned. I just knew that there were alot of folks here using and loving the VRD's...and the 275 is kind of a reference point that a lot of people know. At least more so than some of the small esoteric brands. Some of the posts that say "tubes changed my life..." have me thinking. I do not have a good way to home demo anything without just buying it and trying it. Thanks again. PS> I might start with a Mc tube pre and SS power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I have heard the VRDs and they are great. Very similar to a modded Dynaco - at least to my ears. The Mac has it's own signature sound that I find very pleasing. If you go with the macs, you can always get what you paid for out of them which is a big selling point. I dont think that the resale would be where it is unless it was founded in performance. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two dot Posted May 29, 2007 Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 Thanks Josh, Now... have you made a direct comparison between the Pcats and the VRD's? Just trying to learn all that I can here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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