JBL Paragon!

[onthefenceman]

Anyone have $5k to spare?

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/ele/372360315.html

[jacksonbart]

seems a bit rich, I could think of other JBL products I would rather have, like these...

[seti]

That is probably an ok price.

Here is a JBL Metrogon on ebay click here starts at$12.5K

[TheEAR]

That Metrogon is in superb condition,if I was an oldie collector why not. Whoever buys will have a very serious piece.

[kaiser SET say]

If you had the 5 G's I understand Japanese collectors are paying upwards of 20 G's for these in mint cond[]

What, you mean you have not bought that Metro buddy[]

[meagain]

I thought these ran at least 10k? Where's Sheltie?

[Ki Choi]

I'd like to buy it...if I had a way to have it shipped to Seattle... Wish I had a long lost relative in Boston....

Ki

[Ki Choi]

It sounded too good to be true...

Here's what I heard from the seller...the ole iSold it trick...

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:03:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leonard Havlicek <leo23havlicek@yahoo.com>
To: kichoi@alumni.duke.edu
Subject: Re: JBL Paragon

Hello,
Thank you for your email. It's still for sale. I'm a civilian employee for the Navy and right now I'm gone with the Naval Region Hawaii to maintain the safety and vital infrastructure that allows the Navy to operate efficiently in Hawaii. I hope that's not going to be a problem because I can still handle the transaction. I left the item along with several other items in the custody of iSold It because I wanted to sell them on eBay when I return, but something came up back home, something wrong with my mother and I decided to sell this one before I get back.
So if you are still interested let me know because we can make the transaction immediately and I will explain you how iSold It works. Regards!

[meagain]

Jacksonbart - What are those? Model?

[Mighty Favog]

It sounded too good to be true...

Here's what I heard from the seller...the ole iSold it trick...

Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:03:47 -0700 (PDT)

From: Leonard Havlicek <leo23havlicek@yahoo.com>

To: kichoi@alumni.duke.edu

Subject: Re: JBL Paragon

Hello,

Thank you for your email. It's still for sale. I'm a civilian employee for the Navy and right now I'm gone with the Naval Region Hawaii to maintain the safety and vital infrastructure that allows the Navy to operate efficiently in Hawaii. I hope that's not going to be a problem because I can still handle the transaction. I left the item along with several other items in the custody of iSold It because I wanted to sell them on eBay when I return, but something came up back home, something wrong with my mother and I decided to sell this one before I get back.

So if you are still interested let me know because we can make the transaction immediately and I will explain you how iSold It works. Regards!

Yep! It doesn't exist.....

[garyrc]

In the very early 1970s, a Berkeley, CA store (might have been Fisher Stairway to Sound [no stairway] -- they were bought by, and became, the Good Guys right after this) had a JBL Paragon set up between two Klipschorns. They didn't seem to want to A-B compare them at first, even though this was an obvious thing to do. Did the purchase of one deliver more money to the dealer? Also, P.W. Klipsch had visited shortly before, and said some things (I know not what) about some of the equipment the store carried that one of the sales guys reported offended him.

Eventually they did set up a comparison, powering with McIntosh amps, as I remember. Several of us listened much too long, as other groups of customers, some of which could actually afford these speakers, drifted in and out. The speakers were very different, but very hard to decide between as to quality.

Both had that precise and "horny" sound -- if you've gotta have coloration, that's one I like...

If anything, the Paragon might have been very slightly more precise sounding, but occasionally with a slightly harder midrange ...

The word "imaging" had, mercifully, not been invented yet (but PWK's "stereo geometry" was known). The Paragon was designed in part to not have a "hole in the middle" and the design succeeded, but the Klipschorns really didn't have "hole in the middle" either, at least from the three sweet seats they had set up. The Khorns were about 12 feet apart from inside edge of the cabinet to inside edge, and the Paragon was about 104" wide -- had channels 40" less spread apart, if you go by the cabinet edge, in reality more like 60" less far apart. Most of the time the Khorns sounded more spacious, perhaps due to the spacing ... but some of the time the Paragon did...

The Paragon looked more solid in construction ...

I believe the Paragon was considerably more expensive than a pair of Khorns ...

The Klipschorns sounded a little "warmer" in the brass with some program material ,,,

Neither were quite as forgiving of some (poorly recorded?) strings as the Bozak that was also sitting there, but they were both fine with most strings. Both had highs when reproducing brass, triangle, even piano, that could tingle one's cortex, that the Bozak simply couldn't do.

Occasionally, the Khorns seemed to have a larger supply of deep bass (on Thus Spake Zarathustra).

Jazz cymbal work sounded a little more real with the Paragon, providing you were in front.

The Khorns tended to sound more real than the Paragon at a distance of about 20 to 30 feet or more, even off to the sides (a big store).

We left feeling that both were great.

When the Good Guys took over the store, a strange thing happened -- all of the Klipsch emblems were ripped off of the grille cloths, yet they were still for sale. The damnedest thing. Did they buy the speakers form the former owner, and did they fail to pass Klipsch's muster? The personnel all changed, as far as I could tell, and the new guys claimed to not have a clue, other than one hypothesizing "Vandals???"

Many years later, when I decided to buy Khorns, the Good Guys had them, brand name emblems and all, but only had the most expensive woods. "What about plain old oiled walnut?" "Not available!" I called Klipsch, and the woman there said, "We still make them, oiled walnut is the most popular one!" I bought walnut ones a 10 minute drive away, in Oakland.

[jacksonbart]

Jacksonbart - What are those? Model?

K2s

[ClaudeJ1]

Wow. Great story, Gary. It seems to me that PWK always had an attitude of "don't overdesign" from a cost point of view. JBL could be accused of overdesigning beyond their specification. Witness the L200 and L300 (??)..............the more expensive versions using big drivers, magnets, etc. being trounced by Cornwalls at less than 1/2 the price.

Klipsch is not quite like automotive electronics, where engineering keeps removing parts until it doesn't work, then you put one back in. LOL. But they don't waste any money getting to great sound, unlike JBL.

The Paragon, to me, was more of a wood sculpture that made sound as opposed to a speaker. But it was an absolutely beautiful conversation piece that made nice music, so I'm not trashing it. Khorns are still made, Paragons are not. End of story.

[Ki Choi]

Hi Meagain:

The speaker photo posted by Jacksonbart was a pair of JBL K2-S9800s to be exact. The latest model was updated with Be drivers and have added SE in the model number. They were considered to be the "best" speakers available in Japan by Stereo Sound magazine until JBL had introduced these...

They are DD66000 and was chosen as the #1 speakers in Japan for 2006. The K2-S9800SEs came second followed by B&W 800Ds...Khorns came 24th I believe... The Khorns are being offered by Yamaha in Japan.

[boom3]

We've seen that line "I'm a Navy person...infrastructure..." blah blah before, on a ebay listing that also was bogus.

The Paragons had better drivers in a cabinet that didn't really work as intended. Klipsch, OTOH used less expensive drivers but get his eye on the science involved. The Paragon's chief fault are those legs...decoupling bass from the floor. Also, the horns are kinda short.

[garyrc]

Ki Choi,

Thanks for the pictures and info re: the JBL DD66000!

I tried to get Stereo Sound magazine's 2006 speaker ranking online, and could not. Can you provide a link, or post it?

The DD66000s look great. Given the 96 dB sensitivity rating, it looks like one would need the entire 500 wts Maximum Recommended Amplifier Power that JBL allows -- or a little more -- to produce the same SPL that we can get out of Klipschorns at Klipsch's Maximum Continuous allowable power of 100 watts.

But, then again, those who can afford a $60,000 pair of speakers might not have a problem buying a good 500 Wt amp.

[Ki Choi]

Gary:

Glad to hear that the DD66000 seemed interesting to you. I heard a pair in Osaka and was impressed although the room wasn't ideal.

I didn't think they publish the 2006 Grand Prix Award list online.

In the list for speaker systems with list price of 1,600,000 Yen ($13,000 US) or higher catagory,

1. JBL Project Everest DD66000

2. JBL Project K2 S9800SE

3. B&W 800D

4. ATC SCM100Tsl

5. Magico Mini

5. Wilson System 8

7. Wilson Sophia 2

7. Tannoy Canterbury/SE

9. Quad ESL 2905

9. Sonus Faber Guarneri Memento

9. Sony SS-AR1

9. Avantgarde Nano

9. B&W 801D

9. Sonus Faber Stradivari Homage

9. Avalon Diamond

16. B&W 802D

16. Vivid Audio B1

16. Vivid Audio K1

16. Sonus Faber Anniversario

16. Linn Artikulat 350

16. Ray Audio RM7VC MESA

16. Magico Model 6

16. Avalon Isis

There are six speakers ranked 24th - notable is Klipschorn for 1,700,000 Yen ($13,900US)

There are 11 speakers raned 30th.

Let me know if you are interested in seeing more.

Ki

[garyrc]

Ki,

Thanks for the list!

JBL has always interested me, and I'm glad to see they are still designing new speakers. I used to love the marvelous JBL units occasionally used with the pristine 6 channel magnetic soundtracks in movie theaters equipped for Todd-AO (and, sometimes, other 70 mm movie processes) of the 1950s and '60s. One of the best set-ups was in the late, lamented Coronet in San Francisco (before the late 1970s, when they ill-advisedly changed speakers). The Altecs were good too, but not quite as good, IMO. Altecs were used far more often, but seemed to have a little less sparkle. Somewhere in the Forums, someone posted pictures of the JBLs that were finally taken out of the Coronet and Alexandria, photographed by the man who was hired to take them out, I believe. These are also on the JBL forum somewhere. Another individual posted many, many pictures of the Altec movie horns.

Both the JBLs and the Altecs tended to sound better in these theaters than at home, partly because the movie magnetic tracks (but certainly not the optical) were far superior to Lps and the phono cartridges of the day, as well as the usual 7.5 or 15 ips magnetic tape used in the home -- and there were generally 5 channels of music (and 1 of off-screen effects) spread over a wide expanse. IMO, they were better, warmer, richer, than today's digital movie tracks, or CDs.

In the home, in those days, the best JBLs and Altecs were subjected to the same criticism as the best Klipsch speakers, "Excellent with exceptionally good recordings, too revealing of flawed recording."

Now all we need is a format for the home that will be widely used by the music providing industry that is also reliably mass produced (too few SACDs/DVD-As, vinyl is too variable/vulnerable, cartridges too finicky for me), that is as warm, sweet, and dynamic as those old magnetic soundtracks! Could it be SACD or DVD-A if we built a fire under the decision makers?