Moderators dtel Posted September 25, 2007 Moderators Share Posted September 25, 2007 Professor T, I have question for you, on the 2 top models is the difference just in looks and size or is there a difference in components, ' quality of sound" . Not much of a difference in price if the quality of sound is better ? Thanks and good job, and was nice to meet you ! [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Professor T, I have question for you, on the 2 top models is the difference just in looks and size or is there a difference in components, ' quality of sound" . Not much of a difference in price if the quality of sound is better ? Thanks and good job, and was nice to meet you ! [Y] Hi dtel, Glad you enjoyed the demo! Here is an explaination of all our IE models from an earlier post... How many arms do I need? Here is the lowdown as best as I can explain it without you having the earphone models in your ears.... Before I explain how many armatures you need. Let's go over some terms first: IEM or IE = In Ear Monitor - this is usually a professional level earphone that is customized to fit your ear canals. The performer will use these to minimize stage volumes, so they can work for more than 10 years without losing your hearing. With lower volumes it is easier for them to control what they want to hear in the monitor mix thus saving their hearing. Now the performer can stay on pitch and keep good timing. PM = Personal Monitors, earphones with armatures Headphones or HP = General description for all types Earbuds = Similar to the Apple headphones with Moving coil transducers inside Entry Level PM's.......... use a simple balanced armature. The challenge the engineer has primarily rests in the balance armature design itself, the damper and the nozzle design. This is a very difficult task to make full range since the transducer will work well in the LF or the HF but not generally wideband. Typically the Bass, Vocals or Drums suffer the most with this design, sounding slightly harsh or not having any output that is audible in that range. In other words the vocal sounds throaty or scratchy depending on the model. There is also limited SPL with this design due to being a single arm design. Even with these disadvantages it sounds better than any moving coil design that I have heard since the mass of the diaphragm is much less the HF is much more accurate than a standard earbud with a moving coil. Custom 1 has been optimized to give the best balance of LF and HF. This design uses a KG332 armature. Mid Level PM's............ use either premium single armatures that are usually smaller or dual armatures with minimal or no EQ. Each product has its limitations. For Klipsch's IMAGE PM a premium armature is used which is a proprietary KG926 driver. The KG926 is ultra compact. Less weight generally means more comfort because there is less force on the ear canal. This model has "special sauce" which I can't go into, due to its proprietary nature, but it is very full range with delicate high's and smooth deep bass. The sound is very accurate due to its light weight diaphragm and the multiple levels of treatment to the design. Generally speaking people will have a hard time complaining about this design. It is easy to use and sounds very accurate. Vocals are silky smooth and drums have a nice snap to them. You can not believe your ears...a product this size sounding this full! The primary limitation is that it is small so you must have a good air seal or you will loose bass. The way we have minimized this problem is by making the chassis micro small with a thin aluminum extruded body or chassis. This small diameter allows the armature to get closer to your eardrum than all of the others models out there. Precision machining is required to make this model, and the design is complicated to get correct due to its size. The patent pending eartip also insures a better seal since it is similar to the shape of your ear. Another type of mid level design is using dual armatures similar to our Custom 2. In the Custom 2 design we have partnered with Sonion and have applied for a patent on this armature, so I can talk about some of the details. The KG534 driver is really two drivers i.e. two motors two armatures and two diaphragms that are tandem (back to back). The benefit of this design is that the diaphragms pump air in opposing directions so any vibration modes are minimized. Think of this similar to dual air bellows on your fireplace with a single nozzle. When you have dual diaphragms your SPL increases by 3 dB and your distortion goes down because it is not working as hard. Part of our applied patent evolves around the low pass acoustic filter that is built into one of the two armatures. This give Klipsch greater control over the EQ since we can have two pistons, one optimized for bass and one optimized for full range. This baby rocks! Musicians will love this product because it is portable yet very efficient. Your vocals will stand out in the mix as an IEM application. High Level PM's...............use two or three armatures and a passive crossover. Our Custom 3 goes much further. Not only does it have two different types of drivers and a passive crossover it also has a patent pending low pass acoustic filter. The Custom 3 utilizes a Klipsch KG723 for the HF tweeter which is a premium armature. This allows the vocals to be ultra silky and very low in distortion. The LF is implemented by a KG732 armature for the LF woofer. The Custom 3 has TWO low pass filters the armature has an internal LP filter plus an additional.... you guessed.... patent pending LP filter on the outside which is optimized for a very low crossover point in such a small chassis without sacrificing sensitivity in the low region of the response. This bad boy has it all! Looks! Comfort! And Concert Level Sound! The passive crossover has 5 components more than any other in its league. With the two acoustic filters and a second order crossover, the LF has a 24 dB per octave rolled off at 1 kHz. Why so low? Everyone else seems to crossover above the vocal region but we wanted to eliminate Intermodulation Distortion (IMD) so we have removed the kick drum and bass tones from the tweeter so the diaphragm can concentrate on silky highs without movement from the LF signal. This also allows us to take advantage of the shape of the crossover for additional EQ in the midrange. The vocals are so natural that this high end IEM won't fatigue your ears like most designs can. But my favorite part is the BASS. I use to have a regional touring pro sound system for live performance applications. I had eight 18 inch 1000 watt drivers just for the subs, so I don't have to tell you how much I can appreciate good clean bass. Image hearing headphones flat BELOW the musical bandwidth. There is no limitation to the bass. I just wish it would shake my pant legs like my pro system did. I encourage everyone to try this product before the buy any other. You will find that the money was well spent. So what type of HP do you need? You will have to be the judge, but you will need to keep in mind that there is a reason why there is large range of prices. The number of arms does make a difference for the IE headphone family. Hopefully this helps you understand what a large difference there is for our family of products dtel...<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /> Why don't you stick it in your ears! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy W Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 I got to hear the IMAGE last night... all I can say is WOW. I'm not a headphone listener, but these are fantastic. Perfect fit, very small, extremely lightweight, great seal, blocked out all of the room noise (I'd say ~25dB of attenuation), but even with the tight seal there was no discomfort. And the sonics were nothing short of excellent. I'm not being paid to say this, had I not liked it I would have posted nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 I believe you Andy and thank you very much for the breakdown Mark. I was sold on the Custom 3's before nowit's just waiting on them to appear in the store[] I can't wait to hear these babies through my RS Tomahawk[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted September 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted September 27, 2007 Thanks Professor Thump, I read it a while back but couldnt find it after looking at the new page of descriptions.[A] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
videomagician Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 If $350 sounds expensive, what about $1150 for These. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 dtel, I am glad for your interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 If $350 sounds expensive, what about $1150 for These. David David, they obviously take heed in their own name! Their is price points for everything like home audio the IEM/Portable market has it's high and low roads. You can sure expect to pay more when your phones are built around custon ear molds by an audiologist[^o)] I'm just very curious to see how the Custom-3's fair agaist what I consider their direct compitition based on parts and build and that would be the Shure E500 series & Westones new UM-3's which I'm sure are going to fall under the same $500 ballpark. I see where Professor thumps breakdown on IEM's is already posted out on a Head-Fi thread and I'm sure it's going to educate many a buyer[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mny Posted September 29, 2007 Share Posted September 29, 2007 Professor T, I currently have the Shure SE530s which sound nice, but they are bulky and uncomfortable for extended wear. I'm really interested in the IMAGE PM especially because of their size and apparent comfort. Would you say that the sound quality for the IMAGE is similar to the Shures or only the custom ones can be compared with the 530s? Also, when the earphones are released will they be mass distributed and easy to purchase or will there be some initial difficulty locating a place to purchase a pair? Thanks in advance for your response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterDLai Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Professor T, I currently have the Shure SE530s which sound nice, but they are bulky and uncomfortable for extended wear. I'm really interested in the IMAGE PM especially because of their size and apparent comfort. Would you say that the sound quality for the IMAGE is similar to the Shures or only the custom ones can be compared with the 530s? Also, when the earphones are released will they be mass distributed and easy to purchase or will there be some initial difficulty locating a place to purchase a pair? Thanks in advance for your response. Well, some people who have heard both the IMAGE and Custom Series say that the IMAGE is actually pretty close to sounding as good as the Custom-3 model. I feel confident in Klipsch's ability to bring competitive products to the headphone market and quite possibly take it by storm. Just got to get through this long month of October. [:S] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Professor Thump: Since I won the Custom 10 headphones is it possible that when the voucher comes that I can pay for the upgraded model? Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Jay, Did we win Custom 10s??? I thought they hadn't decided what they would send out???...[] Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 I think Amy mentioned it was custom 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterDLai Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Whoa whoa whoa, hold on there a second. What is a Custom 10?! I only see Custom-1, Custom-2, and Custom-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Custom 10? Maybe it's the absolute top of the line Professor Thump is feverishly working on for Jay and Bill? Maybe meant Custom 1? Maybe hadn't named them yet? Getting your choice of the available models would be sweet. [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 sorry custom 1 I would like to get the image and even pay the difference..... I think I have good enough speakers that my headphones I will trade comfort and weight for absolute sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 sorry custom 1 I would like to get the image and even pay the difference..... I think I have good enough speakers that my headphones I will trade comfort and weight for absolute sound. Jay, what exactly does "Sorry Custom 1" mean here? Have you gotten the Custom 1's and your not happy with them? Are you saying sorry custom 1 I'm thinking the image is more to what I want in an IEM? What I have been reading and understand from Professor Thump is the Custom 3's and Images are close in sound quality (Custom 3's having a slight overall edge)! How do the single balanced amature Custom 1's sound? Say against Shure E2C's or E3C's or other like single arm IEM's you have heard? You looking at a $220.00 jump in price to the Images[*-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted October 4, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 4, 2007 He mistakenly said "Custom 10" so now he's saying "Sorry, (I meant) Custom 1." Pay attention, Kaiser. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 He mistakenly said "Custom 10" so now he's saying "Sorry, (I meant) Custom 1." Pay attention, Kaiser. [] exactly amy, I did not mean to say I sorrily got custom 1, I did not get them yet and even if I do I will treasure them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 He mistakenly said "Custom 10" so now he's saying "Sorry, (I meant) Custom 1." Pay attention, Kaiser. [] Yes mam[] ADHD is a $^$*#^[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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