FisherBBC Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I'm new here, and I have a similar question to an already asked question, but I just need some help. I have a pair of RF-62s, in a small apartment, powered by a Denon AVR 1507 (7x75w), and although I love the 62s dynamics, power, and resolution, they make me want to cut my ears off after a prolonged listening period. I'm aware that my Denon is a bright receiver, which is why I am here. I would love to gain some insight on lower end products that might greater improve my 62's soundstaging, midrange clarity, while refining the high tizziness of the tweeter and the undefined bass. My budgest for components is less than $600.00, and is there any other suggestions to help improve my frustrated state? I did notice some talk of reworking internal networks, any more on that? To add insult to injury, I went to a local Hi-Fi shop Saturday, and heard the B&W CM1's--it was the first time I was disappointed in my 62s. The sound out of a speaker that small is unbelievable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 One Word for you - Tubes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Keep the Denon for HT if you have one but for 2-channel listening, buy a vintage tube integrated amp and have it rebuilt by our forum's master tube technician, Mr. Craig of NOSValves fame. A Scott 299 or similiar would make those 62's sound better than you ever knew they could for about your budget. HT recievers for 2-channel listening just doesn't work in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Sounds like a room acoustics problem to me - I would be willing to wager that most of what you're experiencing can be tracked down to room modes and ultimately the lack of low frequency information (which you're compensating for by trying to boost the volume and ripping your ears off). If this is the case, no amount of amplification is going to help you. For starters, I would play around with speaker position and also the listening position (even if it's just temporary to see if the problem can be fixed). Anyways, the point is that the RF-62's should sound very nice with that receiver. I know there are better types of amplification out there, but I really doubt the difference is going to be of a magnitude that will want you keeping your ears. I might also suggest that an amp with low damping factor (like most tubes) is really going to blur the mids when used with dual woofers that cover such a wide frequency range. Could you perhaps quickly describe your listening arrangement and the source material you're listening to? Are the RF-62's part of a surround system and are you using a subwoofer too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FisherBBC Posted October 1, 2007 Author Share Posted October 1, 2007 Within the boundaries of my apartment living room, I am about 8 feet away from the speakers, and the speakers are about 5 feet apart. As for the source, I am currently using the Oppo HD970 universal player. I am strictly using the system for stereo, (which is why I am hoping to part with the Denon). I tend to enjoy acoustic music, but I also enjoy heavily layered rock albums. The clarity and detail is great, the midrange is a bit muddy at times, the bass unrefined, but the main problem is the screeching high frequencies that leave my ears fatigued. I would much rather a warm, refined, skilled sound coming from my 62's instead of the brash and forward sound they so easily accomodate. Are there any cables, speaker or interconnect, that could also limit the horn harshness? Thanks everyone so far for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Its the room, but by all means buy a new stereo amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 First things first,Denon has to go,no debating etc....I have owned several 38xx series hooked to big amps and they still sounded ok,at best.I can't imagine their cheaper models would be better but assume they could be much worse if Onkyo etc...are any way to measure(I've owned mid and best,best mediocre,mid pretty bad).If you like 2ch get a good integrated or pre/amp combo,If you want HT/2ch on a budget look at HK 6xx,used Rotel,Arcam avrs and the like.One last ?,were the b/w hooked to a Denon 1507? If you hooked those 62's to a $2k or more front end you may think them unbelievable,and,you need a sub.Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klipschaholik Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 A cheap experiment would be to buy a HK 430, 630 or 730. Close to the tube sound without the tube expense. See if that helps. [D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 How big is the room and where is the listening position in the room? Basically, are you sitting anywhere near the middle? Keep in mind that a perceived HF problem could actually just be a lacking LF problem. Since the bass sounds unrefined, and due to physics the room has a larger impact on the bass, I would wager that fixing the LF problem will clean up the perceived HF problem. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but the magnitude of difference offered by changing amps probably isn't going to be large enough to offset the tearing off of your ears (at least not in the situations where I've felt the same way). Fancy interconnects aren't going to have that magnitude of difference either. Amps and cables and pretty much anything electronic is going to have a +-1dB influence on the sound, whereas room acoustics can have +-20dB. One other thing you might wanna make sure of is that you're sending a digital signal from the player to the receiver. Every receiver converts the signal to digital (even when fed an analog input) so it's best to avoid the extra DA/AD conversion. Also, it's important to check that the receiver is operating in a "good" mode. I believe the Denon has a 2-Channel Stereo mode on it or something that bypasses any kind of DSP. It's actually kinda hard to purchase a low performing DAC anymore and Denon is pretty good about using higher quality DACs in their receivers. Anyways, if you wanna try out different amps I would second the recommendation to give the HK 430, 630, 730, 930 Twin Powered receivers from the 70's a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 What are you listening to?; as some have pointed out some music is truly fatiguing when presented accurately. Barring that, mayhap a trip down the rabbit hole of acoustic treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 go to the garage sale threads and find audio flynns thread selling a scott lk48 (i beleive) and buy it............it has already been refurbed by craig and he is offering it at one hell of a deal Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 No amount of different amplifiers will change a room problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 actually cutting off your ears is not a really good idea, unless you paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerbalm Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 been there done that, get off solid state stuff (great for other speakers, not Klipsch) and move into tubes. (you can leave cdp solid-state no problems). Miracles do happen. (forget about acoustics...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Your right acoustics don't matter, the room does not matter. Buy an amp that my most measurements increases distortion and is less reliable. Its all about miracles. Ever see Highway to Heaven? In fact just look at Michael Landon, you know Charles Ingalls. Now who would have thought back in Oct 31st 1936, that Eugene Maurice Orowitz would become Little Joe Cartwright? Its a mircle. Go out and buy a tube amp and the 5 DVD box set of Highway to Heaven and by all means just cut off one ear and take up painting. It will be a mircle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 No amount of different amplifiers will change a room problem. you got dat right [Y] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 No amplifier will fix your room problems but it can still make a big difference. You might just find out that you don't have any room problems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 I agree with Gary. Problems with "midrange clarity and high tizziness of the tweeter," as well as undefined bass, sound to me like electronics issues and perhaps a speaker-electronics mismatch. I don't see how room solutions are going to deal with those things, and I myself wouldn't know where to start on trying to improve a room. Things I have tried in the past haven't done much to the essential sound, especially from the tweeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 throw a towell over the tweets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerbalm Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 That's becoming over complexified. He's complaining about disturbing highs and lack of midrange - thats due to the design of his (reference) horn. problem is solved/avoided by tube amplification, this is an emperical fact I'd like to guarantee. Now the lack of bass is due to the 1/8 loading design of all Klipsch products that must be placed near corners, otherwise nothing below ~100hz, including the reference flagship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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