AltmanEars Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Hello music lovers --- I'm attempting to put together a system around Khorns in a rather small room. I have a few questions. 1. The room is 16 x 28 x 9 but I cant place the speakers in the reccommended long wall corners but in the 16 ft corners, would this really reduce the sound quality to the point that I should consider other speakers? 2. I'd love to focus on amps/preamps --- my budget is rather flexible and I have some good equipment already... For those who have heard both, would you favor Shindo push pull over McIntosh tubes on Khorns. (I have a MX119 for a home theater but so far I'm not happy with the McIntosh sound finding the DAC's a bit mediocre and the preamp section of the MX119 less than transparent and musically flat. --- of course that does not speak to the amps but if the MX is any indication ----???) 3. I love the idea of the HE low powered system, which is why I'm looking at the KHorns. I intend to order a new pair --- if I dont like them I'll sell them through audiogon, could anyone venture a guess at what a barely used pr of KHORN would sell for used...? In other words if my plans go pear shaped what would the pain be??? Thanks in advance for your thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 On 1, first blush looks like the 28X16 wouldn't support a good "sweet spot" off the long wall anyway. The narrow wall will allow you optimize your seating position. On 2, I am the wrong person to ask. Source material and speakers are so much more important, IMOH, than what's in between its almost irrelevant. You'll find plenty who disagree. In my case, I run either a 125.00 Panasonic digital HT amp or a rebuilt ST70 with a Van Alstine Super PAS4i preamp feeding either for music sources. I do not hear anything from either of them except music. On 3, it can vary from 100.00 to 10% off retail, depending upon whether its a spouse selling off divorce settlement booty or dealer. Depends on how long you want to wait. I paid 1200.00 delivered for mine...but I was willing to wait. Welcome to the madness. I suspect you'll get plenty of advice, all good depending upon where your head is. Most of the time I can't find mine 'cuz it's in a very dark place...[] Regards, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I intend to order a new pair --- if I dont like them I'll sell them Am I reading that right? You would order a new pair of Khorns, and if you don't like them, you will sell them on Audiogon? If that is true, Why would you do that? Wouldn't a smarter thing to do, buy used Khorns first, if you like them, then order New, and sell the old one's? I think you would take a big bath selling new Khorns ............ but, maybe I read that wrong, won't be the first time !!! SARATOGA SPRINGS here ................. where you located ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I agree with Dave, you can get a better seating position with them on the short wall anyway, so I wouldn't worry about not being able to have them on the long wall. You'll be sitting closer to the speakers this way, which will be good with low power. I use custom 2A3 monoblocs with my Khorns and I love the sound. You should find a pair of used Khorns and some nice tube amps and try it. I think you'll like it! If you really do like it and you want to upgrade the Khorns, there are lots of ways to do that. Shindo push pull or McIntosh or any other tube amps, they'll all sound good. You're going to just have to try a few different things to see what you like. Welcome to the forum. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltmanEars Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 I intend to order a new pair --- if I dont like them I'll sell them Am I reading that right? You would order a new pair of Khorns, and if you don't like them, you will sell them on Audiogon? If that is true, Why would you do that? Wouldn't a smarter thing to do, buy used Khorns first, if you like them, then order New, and sell the old one's? I think you would take a big bath selling new Khorns ............ but, maybe I read that wrong, won't be the first time !!! SARATOGA SPRINGS here ................. where you located ? Strange but true --- I am trying to optimize the sound of the Khorn setup so it seemed logical to start with a known quantity --- a new Khorn --- plus the economy is a bit punk why not send some money to Arkansas....? BTW my location got mangled --- I'm a CT/NY person with a home in VA --- the VA home would get the KHORN since it has relatively larger rooms. I have any number of decent amps to drive them its just that my experience has been that smaller tube amps sound best --- I have a few small tranny amps Linn Klimax, Klout and I plan to buy a new tube amp just for the Klipsch --- Shindo was at the top of the list but Audio Note , Wavelength Manley etc would be fine...I'm trying to stay under $20K for amp and preamp unless there is a really good reason to go higher....(eg. ---a supermodel comes with the amp ...ha ha ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 My K'horn's are stock, 1970's vintage. They sound extraordinary. I'd like to upgrade the crossovers sometime, but it is hardly something that is eating me up. There have been changes in later models since then that many would say improve the sound. There are also modified 'horns from the '50's that equal or better them. You really can't lose. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Hey and Welcome. My room is 16x24 and I have my Khorns on the short wall and they are working out really well for me. You didn't mention what type of music you listen to or what you will be using, but in the last couple years and all the money I have wasted this is what I would do. Speakers: Khorns Amps: Nosvalves VRD's or Juicy Music PCats. I have had a pair of VRD's for a couple years and they just play what ever I throw at them. My goal this year is to buy a pair of PCats. The ultimate goal is to get a single Belle and go 3 channel stereo so I'm going to need one more amp anyway. KT88's or 6550's. Preamp: Juicy Music Blueberry Xtreme Cream. You didn't mention CD or vinyl, but with this pre you are covered and covered very well. Don't forget the wooden case. I think I have about $4k (new) worth of preamps sitting in a closet. This is my pre that will be with me for many years. Accoustic Treatment: $500-2k. Cables: I'm not going there. Take the rest of your money and buy music, because isn't that the reason you are getting all this stuff. I had a friend come over who has all custom made equipment (amp, pre and turntable). Big bucks. After listening and much beer I asked him what he would change out in my system. He said he'd keep the speakers, amps and pre for sure. I hope it works out for you. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Are you by chance familiar with the Jubilee? (PWK's upgrade to the khorn). You could put a pair of crappy amps on it and it'll sound better than anything you might throw at the Khorn... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Thattaboy Doc.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Are you by chance familiar with the Jubilee? (PWK's upgrade to the khorn). You could put a pair of crappy amps on it and it'll sound better than anything you might throw at the Khorn... You ever heard of the blind leading the...............well it works with hearing impaired folks also... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 30, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 30, 2008 Are you by chance familiar with the Jubilee? (PWK's upgrade to the khorn). You could put a pair of crappy amps on it and it'll sound better than anything you might throw at the Khorn... I am going to have to agree with you on that one Doc ! And yes I am slightly hearing impaired but not deaf ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigma Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Are you by chance familiar with the Jubilee? (PWK's upgrade to the khorn). You could put a pair of crappy amps on it and it'll sound better than anything you might throw at the Khorn... You ever heard of the blind leading the...............well it works with hearing impaired folks also... Or the never heards!! Telling the heards what they they should hear?? rigma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I'm trying to stay under $20K for amp and preamp OOOPS, Sorry, we are not in the same league ................... thought I've never heard of Virginia ,New York ...... I'm a minor leaguer myself !!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Hi AltmanEars... Unbeknown to you but..."here we go again" (which means other than maybe listen to his VRD's for decent sound, otherwise ignore NOSvalves comments here regarding the Jubilees as he's never heard them) I might suggest you read this thread http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/99200.aspx If you're willing to buy new Khorns (which I greatly applaude!!) then I'd suggest you listen to the Klipschorn Jubilee (as already suggested above) and listen to what was originally intended to be the improved replacement to the vaunted Klipschorn. As a bit of background, I've owned LaScalas for 29 years, owned Khorns, Heresy's and Academy's. Not only did I sell my Khorns within a week of hearing the Jubilees, the guy who BOUGHT my Khorns later heard the Jubilees and MCM bass bin with the K402 horn on top (same as the Jubilee) and he has since sold "my" Khorns to someone else and stepped up in size & sound (to the MCM's). Yes, the Jubilees are that good. If you like & want Khorns and buy them new, you are to be patted on the back! If you would like to spend similar (or possibly less) money and get a less pretty speaker but a better SOUNDING speaker (and btw, still support the factory with a new purchase) then you owe it to yourself to give the Jubilee a listen. Interestingly, the two guys in the thread I listed above, bought them without EVER hearing them so when you read their comments (Bill W. and Cask05) keep in mind that they didn't know WHAT they were really getting until they showed up. Also, there is Bob in Washington state, Ralph in London (England) and perhaps Dean?? (I forget) who also bought them without ever hearing them. I'd dare say that none of these people would suggest you guy new Khorns over new Jubilees, presuming you have the finances, space AND you don't mind the utilitarian look of them. Another comment... if you DO like the basic shape of them (and you can see them being built, delivered to myself and Mike here http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/77599/767705.aspx#767705) anyway, if you do like the basic story of them... you can now get them in some of the stock finishes that Klipsch uses. When the earlybirds bought theirs, we were told we could have black or unfinished. Now, you can (evidently) get Walnut, Cherry...or African Mahogany if they have access to it... it's just a function of money. The factory doesn't make any side grills nor box for the top so there are still some issues. However... if you are all about the SOUND then once you hear them (unlike for example NOSvalves who's never heard them and gets his panties in a wad) you can decide if the asthetics are ok, relative to the superior sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I'm trying to stay under $20K for amp and preamp As a second comment, most of the new Jubilee owners are buying the Crown Xti amps (2 of them for about $800) and this amp includes all the power and crossover control for the speakers. Some of the other Jubilee owners (myself included) have the Electrovoice Dx 38 active crossover and having this (though more expensive route to go) allows us to have virtually any amp we want although we (speaking for myself I guess) sometimes have issues with RCA to XLR cable issues. They are surmountable but it takes some thought upfront to get it right. Point being... if you really have that kind of budget then you can really open up your choices OR you can spend less and STILL get absolutely killer sound. (perhaps use the savings towards getting the speakers prettied up?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Are you by chance familiar with the Jubilee? (PWK's upgrade to the khorn). You could put a pair of crappy amps on it and it'll sound better than anything you might throw at the Khorn... You ever heard of the blind leading the...............well it works with hearing impaired folks also... Or the never heards!! Telling the heards what they they should hear?? rigma Again I'm not stating that the Jubilee is a bad speaker or how it sounds in anyway. I'm questioning the absurdity that a speaker is going to make a POS source, preamp or amp sound better. By nature the more revealing the speaker, the more important quality upstream components should be....This is only common sense. If a speaker is capable of extreme detail, finesse or can we say "HI Fidelity reproduction" then it should make a bad upstream components flaws stick out like a sore thumb. If it doesn't then something is fishy....... or the person listening to them just plain does not know what to listen for and/or is not capable of hearing it. If it lets all the good shine through then it should also let all the bad stuff shine through also... No free lunches exist here. For instance....... A vintage Scott integrated amplifier (or many other brands) has the keen ability to make some pretty horrible recording sound listenable. Why you ask....because it has built in EQ..... Put these same recordings into a Hi rez system and they will ripp your ears off. Now place a top quality recording in the Scott and it indeed will sound very good. Now place it in the Hi Rez system and the weakness of the Scott sticks out........... By nature the better one component gets in the system the related components importants should become more apparant not less. Or the device in question is performing some type a EQ that will also effect great source material and components in an adverse way...... This is basic common sense at work here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Where in VA are you? My Khorns are in a similiar sized room, also on the short wall. I have VRDs and a BlueberryExtreme with a nice vinyl setup and SACD player (that I never use). I'm in MD and would be happy to let you hear my setup. BTW - My Khorns are '76 vintage with upgraded crossovers. They sound pretty good. Edit: Craig's post is RIGHT ON! Virtually anything I play on my Scott 299b/Cornwall system sounds terrific. It takes a really good recording to sound great on the Khorn system but it will blow away anything you will hear on the Corns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Craig... let's try this angle... He has stated he might buy NEW Khorns. That means he has a certain budget that will essentially, allow him to buy ANY Heritage speaker or the Jubilees. Given that the Jubilee bass bin was designed by PWK as an upgrade to the Khorn would you suggest he: 1. Buy new Khorns, LaScalas, Cornwalls or Heresy's 2. Buy Jubilees with the improved bass bin and put a Khorn top end on it (since it is a known entity by you) and keep the Jubilee 3 way? 3. Follow PWK's goal and take the Khorn (therefore the Jubilee) back to 2-way (asthetics aside) and gain some of the benefits of 2 way over 3 way? (which means 510 or 402) Just what speaker(s) would YOU suggest he go out of his way to listen to and in what order and why? Would you suggest he AVOID hearing the Jubilee? What if he could hear them on some nice McIntosh equipment?? What if he is more about ultimate sound than asthetics? what then? would you still suggest he avoid hearing the intended replacement to the Khorn? Rather than some of your mumbo-jumbo... why don't you offer your thoughts on what he SHOULD listen to in his quest for some big Klipsch speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Again I'm not stating that the Jubilee is a bad speaker or how it sounds in anyway. I'm questioning the absurdity that a speaker is going to make a POS source, preamp or amp sound better I'm not really expecting an answer so I'll just put this out here... What if I had a 20 year old but working 2 watt transister radio. You know...the kind with the 2 inch speaker in them and the extending antenna. What if I then hooked the speaker leads up to a pair of factory fresh Khorns, LaScalas, Cornwalls, Heresy's or even (gasp) Jubilees (I'd need 2 radios though to biamp them [6] ) Would that be "high fidelity"? clearly not Would it however, be an IMPROVEMENT of sound, over the 2 inch speaker? even though it revealed how terrible the sound was? I'd suggest that the Khorn attached to the transister radio would be a remarkable improvement of sound over the 2 inch speaker even though the radio is a POS source. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 why don't you offer your thoughts on what he SHOULD listen to in his quest for some big Klipsch speakers. Well, what he SHOULD do is to listen to K-horns on good setups if he hasn't done it before, since that's what he's interested in, and take any opportunity he can to also hear Jubes. There's a lot of enthusiasm for them on the forum, but somehow I sense the jury isn't quite in the door and seated as yet. No one should buy speakers they haven't listened to.I second Gary's suggestion that you hear his K-horn and Cornwall setup. You're welcome to stop by my place on the way up or back, and listen to my rather different setup as well. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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