dbflash Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 DrWho wrote the following post at Wed, Jan 30 2008 10:12 PM: Are you by chance familiar with the Jubilee? (PWK's upgrade to the khorn). You could put a pair of crappy amps on it and it'll sound better than anything you might throw at the Khorn... This is so good to hear and is going to save me so much money. I am going to sell everything I have and buy a pair (not a SET) of Jubilee's. I am then going to cancel my order for a Rega P9. I am going to run down to Walmart and buy the best $50 stereo they have and a Winne the Poo Turntable. Hook everything up, oh wait they don't come with crossovers, and be in stereo heaven. Thanks DrWho for the great advice! Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Well, I am just a simple minded fellow. But it seems to me that a few folks have noted that speakers will have the biggest impact on the sound and consequently that is where the money should be spent. Seems reasonable, so I don't understand why folks would be frightened by this strategy. What confuses me is this idea that when your system needs an equalizer then you should instead go out and get an older amplifier to make things sound "good". There was an article in JAES back in 2000 by a coupe of guys named Delgado and Klipsch. It makes for some pretty good reading. Simple mindedly yours, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Where in VA are you? My Khorns are in a similiar sized room, also on the short wall. I have VRDs and a BlueberryExtreme with a nice vinyl setup and SACD player (that I never use). I'm in MD and would be happy to let you hear my setup. BTW - My Khorns are '76 vintage with upgraded crossovers. They sound pretty good. Edit: Craig's post is RIGHT ON! Virtually anything I play on my Scott 299b/Cornwall system sounds terrific. It takes a really good recording to sound great on the Khorn system but it will blow away anything you will hear on the Corns. Nice invite by Gary. Odd when a person writes in and wants to buy awesome furniture grade K Horns with lower power tube amps and then the assistance is recommending buying large black Jubs with digital amps. More than odd. I will ponder my advice a bit longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Odd when a person writes in and wants to buy awesome furniture grade K Horns with lower power tube amps and then the assistance is recommending buying large black Jubs with digital amps. More than odd. I will ponder my advice a bit longer. Ponder his budget...snip "I'm trying to stay under $20K for amp and preamp" snip I don't think he'll have any financial issues doing anything he wants to do but if he preferred to spend say only $10K on amps, he could possibly have $10K left over to elevate his large black Jubes into furniture catagory, no? Given the Jubilees are about 109 db that would be yet another advantage when using low powered amps, over less efficient speakers, no? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 31, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 31, 2008 I think the big problem is not enough people have heard them. If you like the sound of the Khorn you will flip when you hear a Jub, same style bass, folded horn, and a mid range and high freq driver combined, to give a much bigger and open sound. Why is so hard to accept, it's not as pretty but some have also fixed that if it's a problem. If PWK was alive today to say it was his design would that make it ok, he heard it like it sits, it was going into production as soon as he dressed it up, but unfortunately he didn't get to see the last step completed. He updated the Khorn many times over it's life, why is his last upgrade not acceptable ? This was one of his goals a 2 way Khorn, and he, and Roy did it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Dtel, It is amazing how some folks who have evidently never heard the Jubilee seem so threatened by it that they have to keep the lid on anyone who's never heard about them FROM hearing about them and their performance too. With the plethora of people buying Klipsch used on the market, you might think some of the 'unheards' might applaud the purchase of Jubilees (or anything in fact) as that is at least SOME sales to the company, rather than NO sales to the company (relative to their typical "buy a used pair for $2.5K on Ebay" logic) I wonder how many of them have themselves, bought NEW from the company? One would think that if a car buyer walked into the Chevy dealer that the car buyer MIGHT want to hear about the Vette as Chevy's 'hot rod' instead of being pointed to the Camaro as the top of the line. (for you retentives, I know that's not a perfect analogy but the point remains that for performance the Jubilee is where it's at unless you go even bigger like some of our pals & get the MWM's (or is it MCM's?) ) The dealer is crazy to not show the buyer his top model and let the buyer decide if he wants to deal with the price of admission over a lessor model. I also wonder they they would not want/allow each individual to make THEIR own mind up as to the merits of the asthetics and of course, the sound. It's not very hard to see the looks of the speaker now, is it? There's only 25,207 pictures of them on the forum (and 24,278 of them are mine []) Even if the speaker IS 'unfinished', does the sound kick hiney? (yes) Even if the speaker IS 'plug ugly', does the sound kick hiney? (yes) Even if the speaker is NOT exactly what PWK had in his mind (as though ANY of us KNOW exactly what was on his mind) does it still kick hiney? (yes) Won't a 109 db speaker be 'better' for lower powered amps than the 104/105 db Heritage? (yes?) Even if the Jubilee sounded the SAME as the Khorn, woudn't the Khorns LESS sensativity and THREE TIMES the distortion merit SOME consideration to the improved model? (btw, that's not a slam on the Khorn as much as a kudos to PWK for lowering the distortion levels from small to even smaller) I dunno... All I know is everyone that I know of that have heard it, has walked away shaking their head with the typical comment being it is the best thing they've ever heard. It's always interesting to hear what the 'heard-nots' have to say. I suppose they'll be back soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 i think what is turning most people off about them is that every thread turns into a jubilee love fest. a poster will post that my grandmother is dying of cancer and one of the 15 people who have the jubilee will respond "have you thought about trading her in for a jubilee". i could buy a pair today, but i'm so sick of hearing that my khorns inhale and that i haven't heard music until i have heard the jubilee. i really don't think klipsch has been selling carp for 60 years and just figured it out in the last couple of years because 15 people have bought juglees. danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 31, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 31, 2008 Your right, it would be like if everybody loved the Cornwall, but would not be interested in how a Khorn sounds. I like the Khorn and how it disappears into a corner and looks like fine furniture, but to me, more than that it's a speaker, so I would want the best sounding speaker even if I have to fix it up to look pretty. It will all work out in the long run, the more people hear them the more will take them as they look, or fix them up. But the sound is undeniable and that is what has many excited about them. If I could afford them, I would order today, but to many other things on the list of wants, and I have a slightly different plan, being Christy seems to like giant wooden boxes that can shake a house ! This was HER idea ! [][] [<)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 i think what is turning most people off about them We could probably change that to read 'I think what is turning off those of us who have never heard it is..." and not miss a beat. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 it would be like if everybody loved the Cornwall, but would not be interested in how a Khorn sounds Yes, I think you hit a nail on the head. Just imagine how terrible it would have been had the company STARTED with the Heresy or perhaps Cornwall and sold thousands of them. Then in an effort to step up, they came out with the Khorn... just imagine the flack given to those who dare investigate and heaven forbid, LIKE the sound of the Khorns over the 'traditional' Heresy & Cornwall!! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I have no doubt that Jubilees sound fantastic. There are many gigantic ugly speakers in the world that sound better than Khorns. They just need to spruce up the Jubs so you guys can stop having these discussions. My offer still stands if the original poster wants an audition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Again I'm not stating that the Jubilee is a bad speaker or how it sounds in anyway. I'm questioning the absurdity that a speaker is going to make a POS source, preamp or amp sound better I'm not really expecting an answer so I'll just put this out here... What if I had a 20 year old but working 2 watt transister radio. You know...the kind with the 2 inch speaker in them and the extending antenna. What if I then hooked the speaker leads up to a pair of factory fresh Khorns, LaScalas, Cornwalls, Heresy's or even (gasp) Jubilees (I'd need 2 radios though to biamp them ) Would that be "high fidelity"? clearly not Would it however, be an IMPROVEMENT of sound, over the 2 inch speaker? even though it revealed how terrible the sound was? I'd suggest that the Khorn attached to the transister radio would be a remarkable improvement of sound over the 2 inch speaker even though the radio is a POS source. Thoughts? I have a easier option for you. Go grab a Sony walkman and listen to it with its factory headphone/ear buds. Then hook it up to your mightly Jub's..... If the Jub's sound better to you then the ear buds I suggest you give up this hobby all together and buy a bose lifestyle system. I did just such an thing not long ago with a sony boom box that I use in the garage for a person wanting to check the drivers on a pair a cornwalls. The Cornwalls powered by this boom box sounded absolutely horrible..... but using the supplied speakers with the boom box it was listenable while wood working in my garage. With the Cornwalls I'd rather listen to my table saw...... I'm not in anyway suggesting what this person should or shouldn't buy speaker wise. I am however saying Dr. Who's statement is ABSOLUTELY FALSE and MISLEADING. The better the speaker the more you should be able to pick out the difference in the upstream components. If not then the speaker is a piece of crap that is holding the top quality components back from doing there job VIA the built EQ of the speaker. The speakers job just like any component in the chains job in a Hi Rez system is to reproduce the signal presented to it with a flat and smooth freqeuncy response, distribution and so on. If any component in the chain can make a bad signal/component sound "Great" then it will hold back a truly "Great upstream component and recordings"..... So my question is can you power jubs with an Ipod and get audiophile joy or not??? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 So my question is can you power jubs with an Ipod and get audiophile joy or not??? Lend me your Ipod and I'll report back! (I don't have one) [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 i think what is turning most people off about them is that every thread turns into a jubilee love fest. a poster will post that my grandmother is dying of cancer and one of the 15 people who have the jubilee will respond "have you thought about trading her in for a jubilee". i could buy a pair today, but i'm so sick of hearing that my khorns inhale and that i haven't heard music until i have heard the jubilee. i really don't think klipsch has been selling carp for 60 years and just figured it out in the last couple of years because 15 people have bought juglees. danny Amen Brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like I've said 100 times mass exageration in going on here. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltmanEars Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 You folks really know how to stir up issues --- thanks.... Let me answer a few of the issues and make a few obsevations. 1. Jub's in concept may be great --- they are two way and can be actively bi-amped --- on the other hand the Jubs in the catalog don't look like the jubs that are in the Paul Klipsch picture and I think I like the looks of the more domesticated version --- Is a possible solution buying the standard bins and having someone like martinelli build some custom wood horns??? 2. As far as amps and crossovers are concerned I'd only be interested in tubes --- a custom made tube crossover is fine. 3. Finances --- I'm trying to do the most with the least --- don't we all --- as far as what "league" I'm in --- I'm your basic guy trying to make an honest buck. 4. Source equipment is adequate --- I have the Linn Karik Numerik and CD12 players and an LP 12 for a turntable. I plan to have a custom Garrard 301 built/rebuilt. I have 4 preamps in VA... A Linn Kairn Pro pre, A NYAL tube pre --- vintage, A Mcintosh MX119, A Linn AV pre (sounds a bit better than the Mac) 5. Music is too diverse to mention --- everything. Classic, Smooth Jazz, Pop etc... Hope that answers all questions --- thanks for the replies built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Craig there is at least one situation were a better/(more accurate) speaker could when combined with an inferior souce,preamp,amp,etc..... sound better. In the above example: were the less accurate speaker's problems combined with the inferior componet's problems will create a situation that when combined into a system their errors in accuracy added together (combined) to create an even less accurate sound(inferior). Under this condition if you substitute the better speaker the additive effects of the componet and speaker wouldn't happen and the sound would be better/(more accurate). Of course as you know there is a playback chain and everything is important but to different degrees. The purchase of the best/accurate speakers possible when it comes to the ultimate sound reproduction is the best advice IMO (ie: biggest bang for the buck)! mike tn[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Mike, I have no problem with your statement. But saying... "hey go buy Jub's the greatest speaker on earth because you can pickup a $50 POS amplifier and it will blow away the Khorn like it's some cheap toy" is just plain silly. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I would like to say something as a Jubilee owner and Klipsch fanatic to some extent! Klipschorns are fantastic speaker and always will be because they have the capability to bring reproduced music to life with great realism! Roy has told us in many post that PWK was interested in developing some ideas to improve/advance the sound of the Klipschorn. He finally reached a point in the developement stage were he felt the improvements warranted the design(Klipschorn Jubilee) to have it's own name and not just be a Klipschorn II. Roy has also said that PWK wanted the Klipschorn to continue as well as to have the Klipschorn Jubilee available as an advanced design. So please remember even though the Klipschorn Jubilee has some very important advances that are easily heard if you compare the two of them they were not intended to replace the Klipschorn but to actually be the next step up from the present day Klipschorn which was to continue in production. The Klipschorn Jubilee is a natural evolution of development from PWK that took decades to reach and does not make any other Klipsch Model less just because it was developed but instead brings the Klipsch Speaker Line to a higher standared of reproduction than was possible in the past. Roy if I have stated anything wrong please correct me! mike tn[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Mike, I have no problem with your statement. But saying... "hey go buy Jub's the greatest speaker on earth because you can pickup a $50 POS amplifier and it will blow away the Khorn like it's some cheap toy" is just plain silly. Craig I agree things should be stated better on both sides of these type's of exchanges over the Jubilee. I can see how some of these statements (although said with much enthusiasm and good intent I'm sure) might lead to certain responses from people and it's not any easier as a Jub owner to read negative/misleading responses from people that haven't heard them. Unfortunately hearing the Jubilee isn't always easy but once heard many questions/doubts would melt away very quickly as evidenced by all that have had the good fortune to hear them properly. I try not to measure quality of sound reproduction by the price tag(although it's not often you get something for nothing) of componets or speakers but instead by actual measurements and listening. The Klipschorn has limitations due to design as well as the Jubilee will have it's limitations but the truth is the Jubilee's limitations(we are talking cutting edge design and performance in it's case IMO) are much less and when listened to in a decent comparison I have absolutely no doubt anyone could hear the effects of the Klipschorn Jubilee's many advances. mike tn[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean5340 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 i think what is turning most people off about them is that every thread turns into a jubilee love fest. a poster will post that my grandmother is dying of cancer and one of the 15 people who have the jubilee will respond "have you thought about trading her in for a jubilee". i could buy a pair today, but i'm so sick of hearing that my khorns inhale and that i haven't heard music until i have heard the jubilee. i really don't think klipsch has been selling carp for 60 years and just figured it out in the last couple of years because 15 people have bought juglees. danny Amen Brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like I've said 100 times mass exageration in going on here. Craig Okay, I have not heard Jubs. I have heard: LaScala, Heresy, Cornwall and Khorns. LaScala + a good subwoofer beats them all. Heresy + vinyl/Beta a close second. Cornwall + metal a close third. (I LOVE old metal!) Khorn + tubes a close fourth. Am I a golden ear audiophile? I doubt it. Do I love music, no doubt. The difference in all the speakers I have mentioned is negligible to my ears. I would not give up my LaScalas for any of the others, but I would love to own all of the others. I suspect Jubilees would make my list and maybe even best my LaScalas with the subwoofer, but I would not buy them until I heard them. To me it is just too subjective. Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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