Coytee Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 1. No formal data sheet on the website like other Klipsch (that i have seen). You're right in that the 2 way doesn't have any official info, it's a special order & clearly non-standard. 2. Pick your horn? Would you like your car with a V6 or V8? What's wrong with a choice as long as it's been engineered for the product?3. Figure out your own crossover ? Nope... Roy has already figured ALL the data for either suggested horn. He's also gone out of his way to configure the 402 for use with a LaScala bottom "JubeScala" for those inclined (which also sounds awesome and MUCH better than the LaScalas I've owned personally for 29 years)( Never liked al la carte menus) nothing wrong with thatIt is a company accomadation of the Klipsch enthusiast that I will never see in a brick and mortar audio store. I'd say you hit that one right on the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 1. No formal data sheet on the website like other Klipsch (that i have seen). LOL! There's more available hard data on this site for the 2-way Jubilee then any speaker Klipsch has ever made -- past or present. 2. Pick your horn? There are two -- a big one and a not so big one. You actually have a choice depending on what you are willing to put up with in your room. So, if you don't think you can handle the big K-402, you can downsize to the K-510 -- and either are better than the one perched up on the domestic prototype. 3. Figure out your own crossover? There's a network for the K-402 and one for the K-510. The only thing you have to figure out is if you want to build it yourself, or have Bob or me build it. You can even dispense with that and go active. (Never liked al la carte menus) Right, that's why you run one of Al's network designs. Hey, how many available networks for Heritage, hell -- even I've lost count and build the things. People also run different horns, mid-drivers, and tweeters. What, Al la Carte is only good if it's for Heritage? It is a company accomadation of the Klipsch enthusiast that I will never see in a brick and mortar audio store. How many Heritage dealers are there in Michigan that put them on the floor for people to hear. Hey, if you want to hear the Jubilee, just take the four hour drive down to my place. Every Jubilee owner I know of has the same open door policy. Dave, I think if he buys Klipschorns and puts them on his short wall, he's going to be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I don't know why they didn't sound as good as I expected in the party room at the HIExpress, but they didn't. Anyone remember the lascalas with I think VRD's 2 years prior? It was horrid and should be blamed entirely on the room. I was absolutely convinced of that fact after helping set up the sound system for the Q&A session the next day since I was familiar with all the equipment being used...a bad room can bring anything to its knees. Hmmm, I thought those LaScalas in that room sounded pretty good -- until Trey pushed them to 120dB with a hack digital amp with some tubes sticking out of the top. A big difference between then and last summer was that with the LaScalas we had the big divider pulled across the room. People on one side had their mouths shut listening to music -- all the the talkers were on the other side. I think there was like 45 people total at that mixer. Last summer there were over 80 people, and everyone was gabbing it up -- the freaking noise floor was probably 75dB or more. Then of course just about everything played though them was highly compressed stuff being pumped out at just 10 - 15dB above the noise floor. When they were played loud enough to get above the noise in the room -- it was just too damn loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Dave, I think if he buys Klipschorns and puts them on his short wall, he's going to be disappointed. If you really believe that Dean, you've never heard a good Khorn setup on a short wall and I thought you used to have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Hi Gary -- I had them on the short wall, but I had false corners. If he just pushes them into the corners, his sweet spot will be 6 - 7 feet away. There's no real soundstage unless you can turn them into the room some. The guy is prepared to spend $20K on amp and preamp, it might serve him better to spend a bit more on the speakers -- something more suited to his placement limitation. Jubilees can be toed in, and the horns are adjustable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 The sweet spot with the speakers on the 16' wall should be at about 8', which is just fine. My room is only 14' X 15' and the 'horns are on the short wall. Hardly ideal, but the sweet spot is about 7' and works very well according to most listeners. If he were able to use the long wall he'd be at at around 14.5' which is almost flat against the back wall for seating. Anyway, that's my take on it... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 O.K., Dave, we just have to agree to disagree (again I just read this whole thread from the beginning, yeesh. I logged on and noticed all of the Klipschorn and Cornwall theads. Everytime someone asks for a speaker recommendation, it's Klipschorns, LaScalas, and Cornwalls -- I sure am tired of reading about them. Maybe if I throw a tantrum it will stop. Man, by reading through all of those threads you'd think that stuff is the end-all in loudspeaker design -- I think there's waaay too much exaggeration going on around here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 How about the issue of how obnoxious people become once they own a pair of Jubiliees? Some of us acquired that trait after ownership (as you so clearly point out) whilest others have a good handle on that trait without being owners huh? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 O.K., Dave, we just have to agree to disagree (again I just read this whole thread from the beginning, yeesh. I logged on and noticed all of the Klipschorn and Cornwall theads. Everytime someone asks for a speaker recommendation, it's Klipschorns, LaScalas, and Cornwalls -- I sure am tired of reading about them. Maybe if I throw a tantrum it will stop. Man, by reading through all of those threads you'd think that stuff is the end-all in loudspeaker design -- I think there's waaay too much exaggeration going on around here! Sheesh, Dean. It would help if I understood what we are disagreeing about. I am assuming that you are not suggesting that what you hear is TRVTH and what I or others hear is doodookerplop. All I have asserted is that my system is accurate to my ears. That is about all anyone can say with any degree of certainty. Klipsch is not all there is in the audio world. My little Frazier Super Monte Carlos sound every bit as good within their limits of dynamic range and LF response. OTOH, there is a Klipsch for every taste and pocketbook these days. I've not surveyed, but I rather suspect 3 out of 4 on the two channel forum have Heresies, Cornwalls, Klipschorns, or Jubilees. None of these can be argued to be less than the best of class and price performance within their design limits, IMOH. Within that group of speakers, every owner is a king and, if the speakers they own acoustically match the space they have to place them, fits their pocketbooks, and fills their brains with great music, then when the day is done we are one big happy Klipsch Klan. Regards,Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 ...If you listen mostly to bad recordings -- don't buy Jubilees... This has got to be the most interesting forum on the web...short of the Ann Coulter blogs, of course...Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 OTOH, there is a Klipsch for every taste and pocketbook these days. I've not surveyed, but I rather suspect 3 out of 4 on the two channel forum have Heresies, Cornwalls, Klipschorns, or Jubilees. None of these can be argued to be less than the best of class and price performance within their design limits, IMOH. Within that group of speakers, every owner is a king and, if the speakers they own acoustically match the space they have to place them, fits their pocketbooks, and fills their brains with great music, then when the day is done we are one big happy Klipsch Klan. Dave, I like you more & more! Perhaps on that, we'll just have to agree to agree. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Hi Gary -- I had them on the short wall, but I had false corners. If he just pushes them into the corners, his sweet spot will be 6 - 7 feet away. There's no real soundstage unless you can turn them into the room some. We'll also have to agree to disagree Dean. My short wall is only 13' and although I know it could be better, the soundstage I get is nothing to sneeze at. Maybe it's the crossovers.[] My invitation of course is still open. I hope he takes me up on it and posts his thoughts afterward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 That would mean that AltmanEars would have 20 feet behind him. Lots of extra space back there. I just rearranged my living room, and now have my LS only 8ft apart, center to center. In from the side walls a bit now. I sit farther back than I could before, at around 13 ft., and the imaging and soundstage are much better. They are also firing straight into the room. Don't you love this place? Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 > That would mean that AltmanEars would have 20 feet behind him. Lots of extra space back there. Enough room for a grand piano, and the right place for it... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltmanEars Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 Thanks again for the gracious invite and for all of the advice --- you folks are a great bunch and perhaps the most diverse group of music lovers on the net... From what I gather this is the general view --- 1. Khorns may not be the way to go --- you may have to replace the crossovers and the horns at a minimum --- even after that is done, your room may not work and the bass bin will not afford you accurate bass and may cloud the mid-range. 2. To solve 1. Jub's may be the ticket especially if you are sight impared. BUT Jubs require a bit of engineering relative to appropriate crossovers. In looking at the alternatives I'm not sure why I wouldnt have someone like Dr. Bruce Edgar engineer an appropriate horn system... It seems if he can improve a Khorn his complete solutions may just be the ticket. Relative to electronics there are three camps 1. dont want to hear the difference 2. love tubes and preferable SET --- No experience with Shindo or Audio note claimed 3. hear a difference and prefer trannys I hope I captured your collective knowledge and thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 You started with -- Hello music lovers --- I'm attempting to put together a system around Khorns in a rather small room. I have a few questions. 1. The room is 16 x 28 x 9 but I cant place the speakers in the reccommended long wall corners but in the 16 ft corners, would this really reduce the sound quality to the point that I should consider other speakers? 2. I'd love to focus on amps/preamps --- my budget is rather flexible and I have some good equipment already... For those who have heard both, would you favor Shindo push pull over McIntosh tubes on Khorns. (I have a MX119 for a home theater but so far I'm not happy with the McIntosh sound finding the DAC's a bit mediocre and the preamp section of the MX119 less than transparent and musically flat. --- of course that does not speak to the amps but if the MX is any indication ----???) 3. I love the idea of the HE low powered system, which is why I'm looking at the KHorns. I intend to order a new pair --- if I dont like them I'll sell them through audiogon, could anyone venture a guess at what a barely used pr of KHORN would sell for used...? In other words if my plans go pear shaped what would the pain be??? Thanks in advance for your thoughts From what I gather this is the general view --- 1. Khorns may not be the way to go --- you may have to replace the crossovers and the horns at a minimum --- even after that is done, your room may not work and the bass bin will not afford you accurate bass and may cloud the mid-range. 2. To solve 1. Jub's may be the ticket especially if you are sight impared. BUT Jubs require a bit of engineering relative to appropriate crossovers. In looking at the alternatives I'm not sure why I wouldnt have someone like Dr. Bruce Edgar engineer an appropriate horn system... It seems if he can improve a Khorn his complete solutions may just be the ticket. Relative to electronics there are three camps 1. dont want to hear the difference 2. love tubes and preferable SET --- No experience with Shindo or Audio note claimed 3. hear a difference and prefer trannys I hope I captured your collective knowledge and thanks again Hmmmmm ... Let me note the following: Jubes are larger than K-horns and look very utilitarian, although you may have the space for them. I think the jury is still out in terms of making them look OK, and, yes, crossovers and electronics are still in flux. I am very curious how dwilawyer's jubes will turn out. No disrespect to McIntosh, but it looks like transistor electronics won't be satisfactory for you. Besides your reactions to the MX119's sound, its phono input is a mediocre 5mv which rules out MC carts. I suggest you consider either (a) a Juicy Music preamp and VRD amplifiers; or ( BAT (Balanced Audio Technology) preamps and amplifiers. BAT seems to be highly regarded. You're doubtful about K-horns because they may -- repeat, may -- require some replacement items, but are willing to consider having it re-engineered by someone else. Maybe it would work, but maybe not. I think you should stick with known qualities. I am not convinced you you'd need to, or should, replace horns, at least not without hearing the replacements. Not everyone agrees with some changes touted here, e.g., I and two others on the forum didn't agree that the replacement tweeters worked better than the standard K-77. Also, the excellent design and geometry of the top hat has to be dealt with and/or changed with a new mid-horn. I agree with you on tranny-based tube amps. It seems to me that you need to give K-horns another, more direct look. I'm sorry you didn't take Gary up on listening to his very satisfactory K-horn setup, and I think a listen to my setup would have been worthwhile. Anyway, good luck! You have either mail or a PM. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 For what it's worth, if you purchased new khorns you shouldn't feel the need to replace drivers or crossovers or any of that. It's the old age of the used products from like the 70's that sometimes require bringing things back to spec. I think many people just assume used speakers are going to be purchased because it's cheaper... As far as the Jubs, there is no engineering required for the crossover. You pick active or passive and simply drop in the already engineered values. If you don't want to build the passives yourself, then there are others who offer that service on the forum. Btw, which Edgar horns are you thinking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AltmanEars Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 Sorry about the confusion on the equipment--- I can do phono since I have a complete Linn setup with the Linto...The MX119 is used for theater. It stinks for 2 channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 There really is nothing special about my Khorns. I replaced the 1976 crossovers but that's all. I much prefer my original K77 tweeters to the Crites tweeters. I tried them but switched back after a week. I REALLY think you need to listen before making a decision. Everyone has an opinion and yours is the only one that matters. Shoot me an email or PM anytime and we'll set something up. Please do not make any decisions before you have the chance to listen for yourself! - Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 If you want new Klipschorns then I would really look at the 60th Anniversary as a very good option for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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