My New Crown XTi 1000s Are Here!!

[Erik Mandaville]

And speaking of resistors, I wonder that Klipsch may one day decide to include optional (switched) steps of attenuation for the new Heritage line. I've done it using the autoformer, and many companies do that with tweeters and midranges, including fixed L-pads. Having to take a network out of an enclosure to unsolder and resolder connections is a pain. A three position switch would do the trick. History has shown that there are differences of preference concerning this aspect of the speakers. Some built-in user-friendly flexibility would be helpful I think.

Erik

[anarchist]

I probably listen louder than most on this board on more occasions. I haven't found many occasions where I thought I needed more "headroom" with 14wpc.

Then I would say your home brew 60 watters are not working all that well. The sound difference of the Mark III's should be stunningly different then the little HF-81... And I mean stunning especially when leaning on the volume control.

I will ignore the all-too-subtle attempt at disparagement; we have been there far too many times and I have no interest in the drama. The Dynaco's are anything but home-brew - I merely piggy-backed off the work of others, selected good components, slung some solder and use nice tubes.

Certainly the Mark III's or the Consonance, for that matter, can blow the Eico out of the water if I want to get to house-shaking volumes or, as I said, want the neighbors a 1000 yards away to hear some Black Sabbath. How often does anyone play anything that loud? For 80% of my listening at loud volumes, the Eico fits the bill; of course, as I said earlier as well "there are times I prefer the 60wpc on the Klipschorns but it isn't as much a matter of volume as it is the sound." They all have a different signature and soundstage as do the speakers.

It goes without saying if you are trying to fill a large area with concert level volumes, the Eico won't manage it; in an average sized room - not an issue. Of course, ones perception of an average sized room depends on their house and location.

[SWL]

Wow, some new (and old)territory covered here. SWL, your experience with Craig's ST-35 will be akin to eating store purchased generic ice cream, and then switching to Ben and Jerry's. It will be very beguiling.

As far as how many watts is enough, someone who has two sets of RF7s with Crown XTIs will run into the no headroom wall sooner rather than later. Carl has proven that with good clean power, people get driven out of the room due to loudness before distortion becomes prevalent.

Carl, btw, I have the 400 wpc Peavey CS 800 and the Crown walnut case for your PL 4 in the basement. Beauty and the beast, ya know.

Listened to the VRD's with the RF-7's. [Y]

I've been home for about an hour or so listening to my RF-7's with the XTI's. It took all of about 4 minutes to realize that the VRD's sound quality was superior to the XTI's.......surprised I'm sure.

RF-7's with the VRD's........Highs were very detailed, mids were sweet but the bass was lacking. I'm used to running subs but I'm being as open minded as possible. I am all for using a subwoofer because when properly tuned they add so much to the body of the speaker IMHO.........when not set up properly, they ruin everything.

RF-7's with the XTI-2000's..........Well, what can I say...........I'm still happy with them for the price that I paid. They have plenty of power to push the 7's to there limit........Rough around the edges compared to the VRD's but in no way are they lacking any "drive". That being said, I think the XTI's lend themselves to the music that I primarily listen to (hard rock).

I may however, have found the amp for my bedroom system. The stereo VRD I just listened to with the RF-7's sounds like it would go great with my JM Peach and RB-75's or my 74' Heresy's.

[anarchist]

Listened to the VRD's with the RF-7's.

It took all of about 4 minutes to realize that the VRD's sound quality was superior to the XTI's.......surprised I'm sure.

No surprise there. Based on Mark's assessment of the XTI's as well as differences between tubes and solid state, this was a foregone conclusion.

RF-7's with the VRD's........Highs were very detailed, mids were sweet but the bass was lacking.

This is a surprise and not at all what I would expect to hear. The VRD's strong point is bass.

I will say no more about the VRD's and will allow their manufacturer explain or get to the bottom of this - it certainly flies in the face of all previous commentary about the bass and is difficult to understand given their design. Wow! I don't think I have even typed or mentioned VRD's in a year or two.

[oldtimer]

This is the first time I've ever heard any tube amp having bass as a strong point. Except for OB's posts but everyone knows he has tin ears.

[SWL]

I apologize........I should rephrase........The bass may have not have been lacking so much as I guess I was hoping/expecting it to be fuller sounding.

In the last few months I've been trying to hear as many tubes as possible...........all of them have been with Heritage speakers. Now that I've heard them with RF-7's........the speakers that I listen to every day..........the differences are truly evident........in favor of the tubes.

Listening to my RF-7's with the XTI's in comparison to the VRD's..........my system sounds like a couple of light bed sheets are draped over my speakers. Sad but true.

[anarchist]

This is the first time I've ever heard any tube amp having bass as a strong point. Except for OB's posts but everyone knows he has tin ears.

I think this is a setup, Craig hasn't commented directly on a post of mine in a year nor I his and suddenly he decides to comment directly to me, someone else mentions VRD's are but Dynaco's (a point which distorts anything I ever said) and then someone else states bass is not a forte of tube amps in reference to a post I made about VRD's having bass. Whatever. If a game, lets play, if not, I am merely responding as someone who has been the target of Craig's disdain all too often (and for no reason.)

Oldtimer: Lets revisit some posts.

Colin has fallen into the same trap I have regarding the VRDs. There
are MANY amplifiers with excellent midrange, but it's the bass of the
VRD that makes you go "WHOA". It seems for most, the first thing they
notice about a VRD.

When we listened to VRD through the Shape Shifter hereseys it was the
best I ever heard hereseys in 25 years of occassional contact with the
heresey. The amazing performance aspects to me were in order of significance:

bass weight
soundstage
bass detail
attack and decay realism of instruments
effortless

I could do this all day. There are dozens of testimonials to a tube amp (particularly VRD's which were the specific reference) having bass. You should inquire if you could hear a set from someone close by. Be aware, I don't mention this because Craig and I are buddies; Craig will be happy to tell you we aren't and can probably invent a word for the opposite to apply to me. I simply state I have a hard time believing someone can complain about a lack of bass from VRD's.

[Erik Mandaville]

I imagine the bass capability of the amps below would be quite good, and not only because of their horse power. There are factors other than output wattage associated with strong and controlled bass response. Evhttp://www.transcendentsound.com/BeastOTL.htmen the SE OTL from Transcendent sound, with power comparable to a 45 triode, had outstanding bass ability from such a small (in terms of power) amplifier.

The Transcendent Amps I have been lucky enough to have here have consistently provided some of the very best tube amplification we have heard. Having built them, they are designed and put together uncommonly well, IMO, for the cost/performance ratio. One of these days we'll have something like them for our own system. Bruce Rozenblit is a very talented designer, and is also one who has -- rather bravely, IMO -- made his circuits available to the public.

If you like to look at lots of tubes, which has nothing to do with the design behind these amps, OTLs will be an advantage in that respect. Even the T-16 stereo amplifier with its more modest output was a stunningly good amp. I had the chance for one, and I kick myself for not taking the plunge. Amazing sound, very strong, tight bass response.

http://www.transcendentsound.com/BeastOTL.htm

Erik

[NOSValves]

Wow, some new (and old)territory covered here. SWL, your experience with Craig's ST-35 will be akin to eating store purchased generic ice cream, and then switching to Ben and Jerry's. It will be very beguiling.

As far as how many watts is enough, someone who has two sets of RF7s with Crown XTIs will run into the no headroom wall sooner rather than later. Carl has proven that with good clean power, people get driven out of the room due to loudness before distortion becomes prevalent.

Carl, btw, I have the 400 wpc Peavey CS 800 and the Crown walnut case for your PL 4 in the basement. Beauty and the beast, ya know.

Listened to the VRD's with the RF-7's.

I've been home for about an hour or so listening to my RF-7's with the XTI's. It took all of about 4 minutes to realize that the VRD's sound quality was superior to the XTI's.......surprised I'm sure.

RF-7's with the VRD's........Highs were very detailed, mids were sweet but the bass was lacking. I'm used to running subs but I'm being as open minded as possible. I am all for using a subwoofer because when properly tuned they add so much to the body of the speaker IMHO.........when not set up properly, they ruin everything.

RF-7's with the XTI-2000's..........Well, what can I say...........I'm still happy with them for the price that I paid. They have plenty of power to push the 7's to there limit........Rough around the edges compared to the VRD's but in no way are they lacking any "drive". That being said, I think the XTI's lend themselves to the music that I primarily listen to (hard rock).

I may however, have found the amp for my bedroom system. The stereo VRD I just listened to with the RF-7's sounds like it would go great with my JM Peach and RB-75's or my 74' Heresy's.

Glad you digging the amp. How long are you going to have this amp for audition? I can easily send you a tube compliment to try that will bring that bass perfomance and over all power up a notch. I think you would be shocked at the difference. Keep in mind your using a purpose built custom amplifier. The goal of that amplifier was to excell at the music that particular customer enjoyed......which was Jazz. Simply changing out the output tubes and rectifier will have a huge effected on bass response and over all power reserve.

Craig

[NOSValves]

Listening to my RF-7's with the XTI's in comparison to the VRD's..........my system sounds like a couple of light bed sheets are draped over my speakers. Sad but true.

If this were not true, I'd slit my wrists.

You and me both [] In fact I might have to shoot my teacher LOL!!!!!!!!

[NOSValves]

HELLO EVERYONE. PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE THREAD.

1) THIS IS NOT A PAIR OF VRD MONO BLOCKS

2) THIS IS NOT A NORMAL CONFIGURATION OF THE VRD-45-ST which is conservatively rated at 45 watts in reality just a hair under 50

3) THIS IS A PURPOSE BUILT AND COMMISIONED AMPLIFER FOR PLAYING JAZZ

4) THIS AMP IS LUCKY TO MAKE 30 WATTS PER CHANNEL and is nothing even remotely similar to the normal performance of a pair VRD mono blocks or even a VRD-45-ST.

5) A quick tube compliment change would bring this amp reasonably close to a VRD-45-ST.

[Audio Flynn]

I am inferring this is the VRD ST with 350 tubes made for Allan Songer's office system he never had time to listen to.

A possibility?

[SWL]

Wow, some new (and old)territory covered here. SWL, your experience with Craig's ST-35 will be akin to eating store purchased generic ice cream, and then switching to Ben and Jerry's. It will be very beguiling.

As far as how many watts is enough, someone who has two sets of RF7s with Crown XTIs will run into the no headroom wall sooner rather than later. Carl has proven that with good clean power, people get driven out of the room due to loudness before distortion becomes prevalent.

Carl, btw, I have the 400 wpc Peavey CS 800 and the Crown walnut case for your PL 4 in the basement. Beauty and the beast, ya know.

Listened to the VRD's with the RF-7's.

I've been home for about an hour or so listening to my RF-7's with the XTI's. It took all of about 4 minutes to realize that the VRD's sound quality was superior to the XTI's.......surprised I'm sure.

RF-7's with the VRD's........Highs were very detailed, mids were sweet but the bass was lacking. I'm used to running subs but I'm being as open minded as possible. I am all for using a subwoofer because when properly tuned they add so much to the body of the speaker IMHO.........when not set up properly, they ruin everything.

RF-7's with the XTI-2000's..........Well, what can I say...........I'm still happy with them for the price that I paid. They have plenty of power to push the 7's to there limit........Rough around the edges compared to the VRD's but in no way are they lacking any "drive". That being said, I think the XTI's lend themselves to the music that I primarily listen to (hard rock).

I may however, have found the amp for my bedroom system. The stereo VRD I just listened to with the RF-7's sounds like it would go great with my JM Peach and RB-75's or my 74' Heresy's.

Glad you digging the amp. How long are you going to have this amp for audition? I can easily send you a tube compliment to try that will bring that bass perfomance and over all power up a notch. I think you would be shocked at the difference. Keep in mind your using a purpose built custom amplifier. The goal of that amplifier was to excell at the music that particular customer enjoyed......which was Jazz. Simply changing out the output tubes and rectifier will have a huge effected on bass response and over all power reserve.

Craig

Unortunately, I do not have the amp in my possession. I was only able to visit the owners home and get a listen.......and it was well worth it to get an idea of what the amp could do. I beleive this forum member did in fact buy it from a gentleman in California (Allen Songer?).

Craig, I would like to be on the lookout for an amp similar to this for my bedroom system. It would go in between a JM Peach and RB-75's. I also have a pair of 74' Heresy's that could go with that system.........I'm leaning towards the 75's but we'll see.

My music tastes on that system is mostly smooth jazz............it is however a bedroom system so when taking a shower getting ready to go out, rock music gets cranked pretty good and loud. Any help would be appreciated.[]

[Deang]

With this amp -- the active filtering is far superior than "DSP OFF" with passives.

Sorry about the picture quality.

[NOSValves]

Craig, I would like to be on the lookout for an amp similar to this for my bedroom system. It would go in between a JM Peach and RB-75's. I also have a pair of 74' Heresy's that could go with that system.........I'm leaning towards the 75's but we'll see.

My music tastes on that system is mostly smooth jazz............it is however a bedroom system so when taking a shower getting ready to go out, rock music gets cranked pretty good and loud. Any help would be appreciated.

Why look? Just order one built for you....

[SWL]

Craig, I would like to be on the lookout for an amp similar to this for my bedroom system. It would go in between a JM Peach and RB-75's. I also have a pair of 74' Heresy's that could go with that system.........I'm leaning towards the 75's but we'll see.

My music tastes on that system is mostly smooth jazz............it is however a bedroom system so when taking a shower getting ready to go out, rock music gets cranked pretty good and loud. Any help would be appreciated.

Why look? Just order one built for you....

One built........vs.............one used...........$$$?

[Deang]

I think Craig has only built a handful of those to date, so you might be waiting a long time for a used pair to show up -- and then you'd be fighting with everything else waiting for a used one. You'd have better luck picking up a pair used VRD's, which when they do show up, sell for around $1800.

[SWL]

I think Craig has only built a handful of those to date, so you might be waiting a long time for a used pair to show up -- and then you'd be fighting with everything else waiting for a used one. You'd have better luck picking up a pair used VRD's, which when they do show up, sell for around $1800.

That's good to know.......kind of what I guesstimated.

In the meantime, I'll be enjoying my vintage Marantz.[]

[Erik Mandaville]

Those boards on top of the Crown look nice -- good work. It's nice to have the convenience of ample room to work with. That's a luxury I haven't always been able to enjoy. It sure helps to be able to make changes and adjustments.

Erik

[mike stehr]

Gee Erik, it's just a breadboard. A piece of MDF, terminal blocks and wire. I have a couple of them.......