colterphoto1 Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 I've been listening (ok, trying to listen) to a lot of my used vinyl lately and it's just horrible. I love having the library of inexpensive music that I would never be able to obtain. Many of the discs look pristine to the eye. No visible scratches, not even cover wear. I clean using a Discwasher and D4 fluid but the noise is sometimes so terrible that I can't listen. Not just the occasional pop, really horrible noise all the time. Does it take a $4000 turntable, $2000 cartridge, and $1000 cleaning machine to enjoy vinyl? I don't have that kind of money. Maybe I should start throwing away my LP's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 They make great frisbees.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 No you dont need a high end rig to listen without excessive noise. Various possibilities: Your records havee been through the mill and are all shot. You have a problem with your setup - if all records are noisy this might be the problem. You need a new cartridge. With a record that is even semi decent louder passages of music should drown out any noise. The better the condition of the vinyl the lower the required level of music to drown out the noise. Vinyl in perfect condition means that you can't even hear the noise between the tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 Right now I'm using my old Technics Sl1700 with Stanton 681EEE, both 1976 vintage. I'm going to get that Denon 103 for the Thorens TD125MKII, but that tonearm still has staticy noise when you touch headshell.... I use Zerostat and Discwasher for each playing. LP's are from various sources. Some are mine from 70's, usually Soundguarded, recorded to cassette and stored. I'll give one of those a listen Some are Garage sale. I expect to get what I pay for there. Many are finds from fellow forum members. The records have been owned by audio guys, look very good, but have horrible noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 Ah, just dropped the needle on some EC and cranked er up. Dead silent, those other discs were just worn or dirty vinyl. I forgot how it can look 'mint' but sound terrible. At least it's cheap tunes. I gotta start listening to more music, especially before work. Brilliant There's not a thing wrong with this 30 year old Technics. It goes around and the needle stays in the groove. It's not fancy but it works. And when the record is over, it shuts itself off- how cool is that? [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Not to worry...you're screwed. You'll start to find things wrong with it, but nothing money can't cure.[] Seriously, the 618EEE is a fine cartridge. Don't forget to halve the tracking weight if you are running the brush. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudnClear Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Michael, you've got to zerostat the album, not your hair. does that work any better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 From the old days in Singapore I learned that there are vinyl-eating molds that are quite invisible but leave tiny pits in the groove. Don't know if that is the case here, but it happens. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 It sounds to me like the cartridge isn't right. I've had bad carts in the past that would sound very good ONLY on the most pristine records where needle breakup didn't pass some threshold, but sound like hell on other LPs that DID pass that "threshold of scratchiness." If that's the case here, it may be wearing your records each time you play them. Does the music sound pretty much a thing apart from the scratch, or does it all smoosh together? An LP player with a good cart and well-synergized table, arm and cart will make record scratch less noticable and the scratch won't seem so integrated with the music. Your vinyl should be tried on another, OK record player if possible. It would not be OK for me if it only sounded good on a very few records! But, some people also have their own personal thresholds as to how much scratch bothers them. I wish we could solve your dang LP player problems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Michael, I have brand new LPs, right out of the shrink wrap that have terrible surface noise. Do ANY LPs play quietly? Most of the LPs I sent you I never even played so I can't tell you if they were quiet on my system. I also know at least a couple were still sealed. Open one up and see if you have the same problem. If not, it just might be the records. Looks don't mean a thing if the grooves are damaged. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhtman Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 You're right not to trust the visual appearance of the record (unless using a microscope!) Noise is a function of the set-up geometry, the stylus contour, and the table design. First though, is the underside of your headshell absolutely parallel to the record surface or even a tad pivot end low? If the VTA is too high you will get more groove noise. Your Technics isn't the last word in isolation - you will be picking up reflected resonances from the platter. A graphite mat from Boston Acoustics might cure that. Likewise, you could try putting the table on a massier support - stone or multiple layers of plywood or best, a sand box. I have a record cleaner that's similar to the Acoustech and it has cleaned up loads of my garage sale LPs - only two were genuinely worn smooth and didn't improve from being washed. If you trade the convenience a hand brush from VPI working on a flat surface can achieve good results. People over at Audiogon are swearing by those hand-held steam cleaners that you see in Walmart - steam does good things in drawing small particles out and also seems to reduce static. Another thing to try is rinsing your records in clean water after you have washed them (if you aren't already) As in all audiotweakery though, change one variable at a time and check its effect. You don't need to spend $4k on a table - $3250 on a Galibier Serac would get you where you want to be! dhtman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Michael, I have brand new LPs, right out of the shrink wrap that have terrible surface noise. Do ANY LPs play quietly? Most of the LPs I sent you I never even played so I can't tell you if they were quiet on my system. I also know at least a couple were still sealed. Open one up and see if you have the same problem. If not, it just might be the records. Looks don't mean a thing if the grooves are damaged. Good luck. IMHO, the answer to your question is "NO." Regardless of quality of pressing or money spent on TT, arm, and cart, the surface noise is going to be audible when played at high levels. It's that dirty little secret. All LP's are compressed and have to be just like they have to have RIAA applied and reversed. Reverseing the compression is the job of devices like DBX. Why this is resisted and RIAA accepted by purists is beyond me. Properly applied, you have ZERO audible noise on a clean LP and the dynamic range of a CD. It's added up to a winning combo for me since 1976. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nu2toobs Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Right now I'm using my old Technics Sl1700 with Stanton 681EEE, both 1976 vintage. I'm going to get that Denon 103 for the Thorens TD125MKII, but that tonearm still has staticy noise when you touch headshell.... I use Zerostat and Discwasher for each playing. LP's are from various sources. Some are mine from 70's, usually Soundguarded, recorded to cassette and stored. I'll give one of those a listen Some are Garage sale. I expect to get what I pay for there. Many are finds from fellow forum members. The records have been owned by audio guys, look very good, but have horrible noise. I think you're going to love the DL 103. Do you have a MC preamp? If not , I have a Cinemag Stepup you can use to see if you like the cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 R Not to worry...you're screwed. You'll start to find things wrong with it, but nothing money can't cure. Seriously, the 618EEE is a fine cartridge. Don't forget to halve the tracking weight if you are running the brush. Dave I thought we were supposed to ADD weight to make up for the suspension characteristics of the brush. I'll check. Thanks for all the notes guys. I've been advised that although I love the 681EEE (used to back cue for cassette recording- I know I know), that it's elastomeric bits are pretty much dust by now and I should get new cart. Max sent me some sources for turntable/arm/cart matchups. I think it showed the Denon 103 being a good match for each, but I'll double check. Would it be good practice to use one cart for test listening to questionable discs and another for everyday good listening of fine vinyl? This is quite an education. I may be crazy but I'm stubborn enough to keep on this quest. Hang in there with me fellas. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted April 4, 2008 Author Share Posted April 4, 2008 Just got off the phone with Stanton. Their VP says to increase the tracking weight above what is listed .75-1.5 by an additional .5 to 1 gm if the brush is being used. The brush supplies some suspension or up-force and needs to be compensated for. They had no info on what cart to go with what arm since they make their own turntables and are mostly DJ use today. I'll refer to Max's guide and report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 R Not to worry...you're screwed. You'll start to find things wrong with it, but nothing money can't cure. Seriously, the 618EEE is a fine cartridge. Don't forget to halve the tracking weight if you are running the brush. Dave Thanks for all the notes guys. I've been advised that although I love the 681EEE (used to back cue for cassette recording- I know I know), that it's elastomeric bits are pretty much dust by now and I should get new cart. Get a new cart if your is worn. I have heard a huge difference in surface noise between carts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Would it be good practice to use one cart for test listening to questionable discs and another for everyday good listening of fine vinyl? No -- only if you have two LP players. It takes a lot of careful work to set up and align a cart and I only do it if I'm changing cartridges or needing to check or re-do an alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Just got off the phone with Stanton. Their VP says to increase the tracking weight above what is listed .75-1.5 by an additional .5 to 1 gm if the brush is being used. The brush supplies some suspension or up-force and needs to be compensated for. They had no info on what cart to go with what arm since they make their own turntables and are mostly DJ use today. I'll refer to Max's guide and report back. My bad. Right thinking, wrong words. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Just got off the phone with Stanton. Their VP says to increase the tracking weight above what is listed .75-1.5 by an additional .5 to 1 gm if the brush is being used. The brush supplies some suspension or up-force and needs to be compensated for. They had no info on what cart to go with what arm since they make their own turntables and are mostly DJ use today. I'll refer to Max's guide and report back. My bad. Right thinking, wrong words. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Just got off the phone with Stanton. Their VP says to increase the tracking weight above what is listed .75-1.5 by an additional .5 to 1 gm if the brush is being used. The brush supplies some suspension or up-force and needs to be compensated for. They had no info on what cart to go with what arm since they make their own turntables and are mostly DJ use today. I'll refer to Max's guide and report back. My bad. Right thinking, wrong words. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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