Welshstar Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Hi Ive been assembling a 2 channel system for a while now. Anyways ive not been able to get the sound I was looking for, I remembered hearing the Khorns several times and how sweet they sounded. Well after spending a lot of time and money on other stuff I finally took the plunge and bought a barely used pair of Khorns. The problem is that after the man handling to get them in situ I was expecting sweet music, instead ive got pretty flat lifeless bassy music. Obviously not what I intended with the big investment into the Khorns. Im using Quad electronics CDPs/99 pre/909 power amp to drive them along with a Rega 3 turntable. Is there something obvious i might have done wrong is assembling them ? I ensured the bi wiring links were in and rewired the tweeter and mid range. Do i need valve amps to make them sound sweet ? Any help appreciated, any possible dumb *** things that I could have overlooked also welcome. Thanks Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Since these were used, did you listen to them prior to purchase? If so how did they sound then? Also a picture of the network/wiring may help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshstar Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Hi I did listen to them briefly, more just to make sure they were working OK. They seemed fine. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Yeah it sounds to me like something is wrong. "lifeless", "flat" and "bassy" rarely are the words used to describe a properly working pair of k-horns. You mention bi-wiring, etc. if you tried to bi-wire, etc. you should start be going back to square one and seeing if they still sound bad, wire the k-horns the way they come from the factory and see if this gives them back the life...if not something else could be wrong (something in the crossover burned out, etc.). if they sound better wired like stock then you need to rethink how you've wired them. without a fuller decription of photos of how you have them wired it is hard to comment on exactly what could be wrong. if you like post the serial numbers and the type of crossover installed in these k-horns and we can comment more effectively. The drivers could be blown, etc. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshstar Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Hi They are not biwired, I was referring to the links between the two sets of terminals that can be used for bi wiring. I dont have a camera handy, ill post pics of the wiring tommorrow, its basically a normal pair of speaker wires in. The units are apporx 2005, again ill move them out and get the serial numbers tommorrow, im just on the way out and having been moving khorns all day I need a beer !! Im sure hoping this is something obvious !! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Alan, Please relax! All will be fine and please don't start trying to "fix" the problem by spending money on fancy amps and speaker wire. We will help you but first we need to start with the following, or else we are only guessing. 1. Specifically what is the problem with the that you describe as "bassy"? Is it it muffled, one note, boomy, what exactly? 2. Specifically what do you mean by "lifeless". On what instruments or types of music is this effect the most pronounced? 3. What kind of music do you listen to and a what volume. 4. Please describe how you have the cabinets set up in terms of the geometry and distance and the size of the room? 5. These are recent cabinets, did they have a flexible material in the back to help seal the cabinet to the corner and to the walls? 6. Are they snug into the corners? 7. Please check to make sure that all three drivers (in each cabinet) are making sound. You can use a pillow to do this. 8. You mentioned bi-wiring or bi-amping. Please undo this and simply wire them normally for test purposes. 9. Has anyone done some DIY on the crossovers? It is all solvable. But please let's rule out the obvious suspects first, before the group engages in the inevitable "crossovers and fancy amps" discussion. At this point none of actually know what the specific problems are, or how severe they might be. But the good news is that even with old crossovers and mediocre amps, the Klipschorns would never sound lifeless and bassy. This problem sounds like it is more fundamental. Good Luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 They are shot....I'll be over in one hour and give you $500 bucks for them [6][6][6] I agree with PT.... slow down, unless you dropped them off a cliff they're still Klipschorns...at most they need an adjustment here or there...tired and frustrated are not a good combo...have a good dinner, a few beers and you have all weekend to play. If you start now and your like me, your likely to take out the hammer and start swinging. blown tweeter? cheep fix! Bad Caps?? cheep fix! Need bass traps for your room? $20 fix! IMO klipschorns sound at worst ,good even through most cheep HT receivers.....Fix the problem and then go for broke on amps. Most on this forum will help you diagnose and fix the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Unless something is amiss with your electronics, they should be plenty good. Lets get back to basics. Ae all of the drivers working? Are all of the connections on the crossovers tight and in the right place? Are the tailboards snug against the corners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 The "stock biwire terminals" sounds like he just has the bass cabs hooked up. Don't you run a wire from the bass cabs to the top end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshstar Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 Tom Thanks for te reply, to answer your points. 1 - Its not so much that the sound is bassy, its just very lifeless and flat, almost muffled sounding. No real dynamics. I can hear the bass but its just like the speaker has no energy. 2 - The sound seems better on vocals and Piano but when It gets to large scale stuff or rock music it sounds lifless, I was playing Smoke on the Water from made in Japan and it sounded awful, very flat. 3 - I listen to a wide range, from Heavy rock, Jazz, big classical works. I listen at reasonable levels, im in a townhouse so I cant go to mad. The volume on my preamp was at 12 on a scale of 32. 4 The room is about 14 feet wide and 16 feet long, I have the cabinets on the 14 feet wide end wall, there is a window between the cabinets. They are snug into full corners. I then have the equipment between the cabinets. This is amy master bedroom, so the furnishings are basically a bed and some cabinets. 5 - Yes they came with the sealing strip, which i have fitted 6 - Yes 7- Will do that later this morning. 8 - They are wired normally, i was just referring to the jumper between the two sets of terminals. 9 - I have no idea if they have been modified, im going to investigate that later. Is the fact that im using a pretty powerful amp anything to do with this ? teh Quad is 140 watts and pretty energetic, could it be that im not driving the amp hard enough to be dynamic ? Thanks Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshstar Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 Hi I tried listening to the drivers independently and this is what i found. 1 - It seems as if the majority of the sound is coming from the midrange horn, when i unplugged the midrange wires you had to really strain to hear anything out of the tweeter and even then it was muted and didnt sound sensible. You had to put your ear actually to the tweeter to even hear anything. 2 - The bass sound is there but doesnt sound good, I think this might be a function of the speakers being away from the wall though. I think i need to get in and check out the crossover assembly, is that behind the speaker terminals ? im assuming I will have to remove the side grill to get at the screws ? Thanks Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 unless that year was different, you should be looking at the crossover sitting visibly, in the back of the high freq. section. Post a few pics for us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 1 - It seems as if the majority of the sound is coming from the midrange horn, when i unplugged the midrange wires you had to really strain to hear anything out of the tweeter and even then it was muted and didnt sound sensible. You had to put your ear actually to the tweeter to even hear anything. It sounds like the tweeters are not working properly, and this can cause the speakers to sound exactly as you described. Try wiggling the connections to the tweeter while listening to it. Look to see if the terminals on the tweeter are moving or rotating or if the wires are making good contact. Check the tweeter wires where they connect to the crossover by wiggling them and make sure they are not loose there and that they are connected to the proper terminals on the crossover. If everything seems okay there get some lamp cord wire and temporarily replace the wire between the crossover and the tweeter to see if the tweeter output returns to normal. Do it one step at a time so that you isolate and pinpoint the problem. If none of the above helps you may have damaged tweeters or a crossover problem. In that case, take some pictures of the crossover and wiring and post them here. This seems like a simple problem and it should not take long to find a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshstar Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 Hi Please see pics, apologise for the poor quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshstar Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 Hi Dumb question I cant seem to get the pics onto a reply, how do you do that ? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 type at least one letter into the reply, then go up and it options, browse, then you need to pan over to get to the add button. 1 pic per post this way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshstar Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 HI See if this uploads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshstar Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 Good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 The 2005 Khorns would have the AK-4 crossover. It is inside the woofer door. Here is what the crossover looks like. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshstar Posted June 14, 2008 Author Share Posted June 14, 2008 one more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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