Jeff Matthews Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 This is not to be political, but I wanted to note that, in light of the recent crackdown to bring charges for rampant mortgage fround, it was interesting to observe in the not-too-distant past how our adminstration was riding high on the wave of this mortgage fraud. They touted how home-ownership was at an all-time high, America is great, bla, bla, bla. Now, look. It's funny how they look the other way when it helps their campaign, but when it hurts, they're all over it. Mortgage fraud inquiry nets hundreds Government official says losses in the fraud cases total about $1 billion. http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/19/real_estate/mortgage_fraud/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Jeff: You must be wearing stainless steel shorts to start a thread like this. Here comes the Christian Right. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Jeff, don't confuse home ownership with securitization fraud. Rule number one: never invest in something you don't understand. (most of those burned had no clue what it was they were buying, and the ratings given to these securities were not only optimistic but then were misused as the tranches were split). The reason many were put into deals they neither understood nor could pay for then falls upon the lenders for allowing it. They collect their fees, sell off the loans in a bundle to investors, etc. That is greed more than fraud, and fault can be found in both counter-parties. Kudos to the federal bureau of idiots for going after the little guys, after all, the sec already has the big guys in their sights, and so to look good they have to do something. JJ, what does the RR have to do with it? Or the RL for that matter? What does R have to do with a financial cluster you know what have to do with any of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Of course none of this was helped by the a-holes who took a new equity loan out every time the value went up, who are now walking away because they owe more than the house is worth. In my view these people are crooks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Exactly brac, but the greed of the banks allowed it to happen. So their collateral was all this real estate, now they have it, and they are still crying about what they created! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Mark, while we agree on most of the points here, see Bear Stearns. Those people lost their shirts, deservedly so. All the value of the stock down the tubes, no money left in the til. The big guys there are eating tons of crow. Now I won't debate that they already had prodigious net worths and will probably live out their lives in comfort, but in their world they are toast. And don't forget what sank them was owning these securities. If they had simply sold off all they had to other suckers they would have been fine. But the yields were too good to pass up. Greed, pure greed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I am always fascinated by how fast we want to blame those who are lowest on the totem pole. And who are we? No one. It's the federal bureau of idiots trying to make hay with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Its the Home and Garden Network's fault, with shows like "Flip This House" come on, who couldn't see this one comming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 When the music stops you better punch the guy next to you in crotch and sit on that seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 You are so polite JB. I thought it was "kick." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Lots of slightly off-topic discussion about cause and handling. But that's okay. My remarks were basically to show how stupid the administration was. When all the fraud is occurring and the transactions are churning away, the admins get up and give speeches about how "amazing" the economy is. When the fraud is revealed, they retreat and start finding people to blame for making them look stupid. Newsflash!...... They were stupid from the beginning. Remember Greenspan's famous speech where he encouraged Americans that their borrowing increases and declining income/debt ratios were not a problem and that they should feel confident and keep on borrowing? I certainly do. What a buffoon. But still, many considered him to be a god. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 The people: What about all this debt? Shouldn't we be concerned? Gov't: Oh, no. Everything is just fine. It is perfectly sustainable - the sign of a healthy economy. The people: But zero-down loans and the taking of greater risk? Gov't: It's the sign of a mobile economy. There do not appear to be any reasons for any serious concern at all. CRASH!!!! Gov't: Go find those frauds and lock them up! They should have known they were signing up and peddling debt they knew people couldn't pay. [:S] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Mark, BS was bought for pennies on the dollar by JP Morgan. Not exactly a bailout. Any money for the purchase was cash and if not was (here's that word again) borrowed (not bailed). BS got their butts kicked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 After reading the rest of your post(my bad for not including it before), 30% of what? the buyout price was 2 a share, which was next to nothing. Any shareholders left, and top management were a large enough portion due to lock outs from selling were slaughtered from their company's investment strategy. This is as it should be, I maintain shareholders sere clobbered, and top management were clobbered along with it. If you are so worried about taxpayer money, where were you in the 90's when the president at the time raided the social security trust fund in order to claim a balanced budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 A secured credit line implies a payback. If you were delinquent on your mortgage, and I helped you out by paying back money owed in exchange for an interest of a certain percent (collateral) of your property, is that a bailout? Temporarily you are bailed out, but you still must pay me back, or sell the place and give me my cut, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Don't get me wrong, I am not defending anyone's actions here but just trying to put into perspective what happened. What difference does it make anyway Mark? The fed as you and I know is not part of the government anyway so where are the taxpayer dollars? Only congress has access to those. Edit: forgot the wink. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I hear ya mark, but they did essentially collapse, everyone lost their jobs. The aquiring company got the loan to buy BS out. We did discuss this before, and I do remember saying that while the top always manages a parachute, heads will roll, and lots of heads did just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 How nice,congress gets off the hook again.I guess "some people" don't hold their reps responsible for anything,you'all do know THEY make the laws right? You know who's been in charge the last TWO YEARS right,both houses. They ain't gonna like politics as has been noted many times,this thread is clearly political.[<)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 They make laws and spend money. It's in the constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Jeff: You must be wearing stainless steel shorts to start a thread like this. Here comes the Christian Right. JJK Where are they coming from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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