Oil Bubble?

[sputnik]

I just heard a great new term for this session,THE DRILL NOTHIN' CONGRESS.I find it hard to believe more people don't see this for what it is,a few kooks keeping us from developing all the energy we need to suppliment supplies.They intend to run this country into the ground for their interest.Harry??????

Empty political rhetoric.

[oldtimer]

Steven Colbert made the same point in one of his shows recently mark. he played a clip of Bush saying we are addicted to oil, from 2 years ago or more, then followed with the prescription for drilling more oil.

[Jeff Matthews]

Could be, but I dang sure am not ready to pay out the nose for the alternative sources, nor am I ready for the gov't to force me to do it.

[dBspl]

I just heard a great new term for this session,THE DRILL NOTHIN' CONGRESS.I find it hard to believe more people don't see this for what it is,a few kooks keeping us from developing all the energy we need to suppliment supplies.They intend to run this country into the ground for their interest.Harry??????

I agree...

This country consumes 22 million barrels of oil a day and we only produce 5 million. The rest is imported. In ten years I hope our total consumption is a lot less, but I'm reasonably sure we will still consume far more than what we'll produce at that time if we don't develop our own resources. That difference is still going to equate to 100's of billions of dollars, if not in the TRILLIONS. Why would anyone want to send that kind of money, and those jobs, out of the country? Especially to people that want to kill us!

The government recently handed out a stimulas package worth $150 billion. If we start drilling now, in a few years oil production could genrate the equivalent of several of those stimulas packages a year. I think our economy could use it...

dbspl

[mungkiman]

What we are seeing is the cost to secure oil, rather than to distribute it.

Remember, we would still have TRILLIONS of dollars if we had been content with purchasing oil, rather than controlling it.

If the corporations that own the "leases" on our reserves were interested in passing any "savings" on to the consumer, Exxon wouldn't have posted $50 Billion in profits last quarter. I understand the enthusiasm, but consumers are far removed from (stock) owners.

I guess the plus side of maximizing production is that we will run out sooner! Maybe we should have an exit strategy...just sayin'

PS - The government recently spent several million dollars mailing each of you a reminder, that you would be getting a stimulus check!

$.02

[billybob]

There is much in what you say!

[sputnik]

....I was thinking of some poor schmuck addicted to heroin. Suddenly the price of H doubles, and he begins yelling, "Hello? We need more heroin dealers around here!"

The US consumed as much petroleum as the next five largest consuming countries combined last year. That is, 300 million Americans consumed as much oil as 2.8 billion people living in China, Japan, India, Russia, and Germany. Combined, those five countries still had a higher GDP than the US. I remember reading somewhere that if Chinese per capita consumption equalled that in the US, it would require the resources of another planet earth to satisfy the demand.

There are two ways to satisfy our oil demand - get more or need less. I think we can effectively lower our demand cheaper and quicker than we can increase our supply. I'm still seeing soccer moms driving Hummers to the grocery store. For now anyway, isn't it a better strategy to deplete the resouces of "all of those people that want to kill us" and save our own resources for when we really need them? For those that like easy slogans, instead of "drill here, drill now" they should be saying "waste theirs, save ours."

[dBspl]

....I was thinking of some poor schmuck addicted to heroin. Suddenly the price of H doubles, and he begins yelling, "Hello? We need more heroin dealers around here!"

The US consumed as much petroleum as the next five largest consuming countries combined last year. That is, 300 million Americans consumed as much oil as 2.8 billion people living in China, Japan, India, Russia, and Germany. Combined, those five countries still had a higher GDP than the US. I remember reading somewhere that if Chinese per capita consumption equalled that in the US, it would require the resources of another planet earth to satisfy the demand.

There are two ways to satisfy our oil demand - get more or need less. I think we can effectively lower our demand cheaper and quicker than we can increase our supply. I'm still seeing soccer moms driving Hummers to the grocery store. For now anyway, isn't it a better strategy to deplete the resouces of "all of those people that want to kill us" and save our own resources for when we really need them? For those that like easy slogans, instead of "drill here, drill now" they should be saying "waste theirs, save ours."

What is wrong with - get more AND need less? Maybe that way we can make ourselves energy independent. Wouldn't that be nice, too?

And I'm having trouble understanding why we would send 100's of billions of dollars to people that want to kill us. How smart is that?

I would also argue that we really do need it now, but that's just my opinion. But I might point out that by the time you realize you really need it (like for a war), it's already too late. It takes years to put the infrastructure in place to get it out of the ground efficiently.

Anyway, If we really believe we can replace it with alternative fuels, doesn't it make sense to get it out of the ground now while it's still worth something?

dbspl

[Jeff Matthews]

....I was thinking of some poor schmuck addicted to heroin. Suddenly the price of H doubles, and he begins yelling, "Hello? We need more heroin dealers around here!"

The US consumed as much petroleum as the next five largest consuming countries combined last year. That is, 300 million Americans consumed as much oil as 2.8 billion people living in China, Japan, India, Russia, and Germany. Combined, those five countries still had a higher GDP than the US. I remember reading somewhere that if Chinese per capita consumption equalled that in the US, it would require the resources of another planet earth to satisfy the demand.

There are two ways to satisfy our oil demand - get more or need less. I think we can effectively lower our demand cheaper and quicker than we can increase our supply. I'm still seeing soccer moms driving Hummers to the grocery store. For now anyway, isn't it a better strategy to deplete the resouces of "all of those people that want to kill us" and save our own resources for when we really need them? For those that like easy slogans, instead of "drill here, drill now" they should be saying "waste theirs, save ours."

What is wrong with - get more AND need less? Maybe that way we can make ourselves energy independent. Wouldn't that be nice, too?

And I'm having trouble understanding why we would send 100's of billions of dollars to people that want to kill us. How smart is that?

I would also argue that we really do need it now, but that's just my opinion. But I might point out that by the time you realize you really need it (like for a war), it's already too late. It takes years to put the infrastructure in place to get it out of the ground efficiently.

Anyway, If we really believe we can replace it with alternative fuels, doesn't it make sense to get it out of the ground now while it's still worth something?

dbspl

Those were two very well-put counter-arguments.

[Fish]

I never really thought about the fact that there is an element(not corps but individuals)that WANT gas prices to be even higher? They think the fact that people can hardly afford fuel is a good thing? They want us all to ride bikes,mass transit,float on some high minded pipe dream?anything but be what an American is,free.I think the auto represents too much freedom for some people,like they can't control ya if ya got one and can just drive it where/when ya want.

I think communism is more alive and well than ever before,because now it's being embraced by the........well you know............

Happy 4th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dBspl]

In honor of the 4th of July--

You want freedom? You want independence? Here you go---

Do you really wanna help America...Then try this...

Stop bank-rolling terrorist!

Stop supporting Dictatorships!

Keep high-paying oil jobs in this country!

Keep the wealth of this country here at home, supporting this economy!

All of this can be accomplished by simply developing the energy resources under our feet.

dbspl

PS Please note that nowhere did I mention anything about lowering the price at the pump. Gas prices will remain high, and that will take care of the conservation and alternative fuel side of the equation.

[billybob]

http://www.appliedmaterials.com/products/index_pc3.html

A company I was looking at awhile back for trading/investing(AMAT). Cutting edge for today. Larger scale thinking, like apply material to my roof for a solar panel.

[billybob]

http://www.appliedmaterials.com/products/index_pc3.html

A company I was looking at awhile back for trading/investing(AMAT). Cutting edge for today. Larger scale thinking, like apply material to my roof for a solar panel.

I don't know anything about stocks per se, but it seems inevitable to me that someone, somewhere will "bust open" the thin film solar cell technology and prices will start to fall the way they did for microprocessors and memory. Right now the Chinese are making the fastest progress at raw solar technology. Their government is investing heavily in solar technology, and it is beginning to pay off. We are a good 10 years behind them technically.

The company, and not the stock is my focus for this discussion. There are China companies involved in battery R&D that is looking promising. That is the other part to the solar/storage equation.

Behind in our own country because we are not into reality, as history keeps repeating itself. Now the oil companies are trying to get on a green bandwagon. Unless alternative to oil, they have missed that wagon.

[billybob]

The company, and not the stock is my focus for this discussion. There are China companies involved in battery R&D that is looking promising. That is the other part to the solar/storage equation.

Behind in our own country because we are not into reality, as history keeps repeating itself. Now the oil companies are trying to get on a green bandwagon. Unless alternative to oil, they have missed that wagon.

I'm still optimistic we can overtake the Chinese on this. The Oil Dinosauers will soon be out of rule, and intelligence and innovation will become once more fashionable. You have to believe they are running scared when they need to pay their High Priest of Fear and Ignorance $400M to try associating "new technology" with "communism." That is a sign of pure desperation, if you ask me.

LOL! New technology can be a good thing for jobs/economy. Simple enough, but yes desperate people sometime do strange things like link the solar industry to sunworship? What a hoot! If you spend enough money on ads/campaigns in the media some do believe it after hearing it repeated, again, again............like propaganda.

[dBspl]

mdeneen,

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't reduce our dependence on fossil fuels, or improve conservation, or develop renewable alternative energy. I doubt anyone is against that. All I'm saying is that it's going to take a very, very long time to develop those energy resources to the point they can significantly reduce our reliance on oil. Crude oil is embedded in almost everything aspect of our lives. The world food supply could not maitain it's level of output or efficiency without crude oil. If an OPEC country managed to withold oil exports for a period of time, this could result in higher food prices, or worse, shortages of food. In a world of 6.5 billion people, that means somewhere (probably in third world countries) people will die.

All I'm saying is that we have to bridge that gap with the energy resources we can develop ourselves, relatively quickly. Not only that, but it will have a remarkable positive effect on our economy. Right now, the US has to borrow $3 billion a week from countries like China just to pay for imported oil. This deficit spending is what ultimately leads to the devaluation of the dollar. And when the dollar falls, foreign countries unload more dollars, and of course that leads to further devaluation of the dollar. It is madness.

If you think we can replace crude oil with solar power and wind energy, or any other "new" resource anytime soon, I believe you are mistaken. They both have a bright future, but at 1% of our current energy production they have a long, long way to go.

And I'm not calling anyone a communist. All I'm trying to do is point out the fact, whether we're aware of it or not, that we finance terrorist and support OPEC countries that are mostly hostile dictatorships, and regardless what we do, that will not change over at least the next 5 years.

We may not be able to become to completely oil independent, but maybe we can become OPEC independent. I'll take that...

dbspl

[sputnik]

.........This deficit spending is what ultimately leads to the devaluation of the dollar. And when the dollar falls, foreign countries unload more dollars, and of course that leads to further devaluation of the dollar. It is madness.....

It's actually worse, keep in mind that the global oil market transacts in US$, so every time the Fed rate is cut in an attempt to offset a rising trade deficit (due largely to the rising cost of oil) and the US$ declines in value, the price of oil rises to keep the oil exporters whole from an exchange perspective. I've seen estimates that over 30% of the increase in the price of a barrel of oil is due to the decline in the value of the US$

[mungkiman]

"dbspl

PS Please note that nowhere did I mention anything about lowering the price at the pump. Gas prices will remain high, and that will take care of the conservation and alternative fuel side of the equation."

From what you are saying, we don't need to even consider drilling.

[pauln]

Please keep in mind that the fundamental advantage of solar power is defeated when you see ideas that look like turning the state of AZ into one big solar collection site. The distribution logistics eat up the cost structure and you just end up with another "utility".

The beauty of solar is that it is already freely distributed.

It will be unlike the development of the telephone - being the first home in town to have a telephone didn't make much sense; it is only after a large portion of everyone had one that it's function took hold - because it's functionality depended on pre-existing infrastructure and distribution.

Being the first in town to go local personal solar works from the get go on day one... no need to wait or depend on the development of an infrastructure to support the distribution aspects of it. The very ideal best methodology is to build and maintain it yourself from materials at hand.

The indicator that personal local solar power generation is here for good will be when commercial electrical appliances switch to be run on DC. "Current" local solar power still needs to be converted to AC (at a loss) to drive current products, even though these products immediately convert internally to DC (at another loss) to operate most functions. AC only serves the distribution of electricity. Some local personal solar enthusiats already convert their appliances to DC to allow direct operation without conversion.

Of course industry and government may step in to cause trouble - I read that in Australia the water utility has made it illegal in some places to collect rain water rather than pay for the utility supplied water.

[mungkiman]

On a different scale, for $3 additional per month, 100% of my home electricity comes from solar, wind, and bio-mass resources. Yes, I'm still paying for electricity, but I'm also paying to further develop these technologies. I know a few rural people that sell electricity back to the utility company, but their source is hydro.

Solar power will be a much better option for Oregon, when the Earth warms up enough for the rain to stop falling...

[dBspl]

"dbspl

PS Please note that nowhere did I mention anything about lowering the price at the pump. Gas prices will remain high, and that will take care of the conservation and alternative fuel side of the equation."

From what you are saying, we don't need to even consider drilling.

Where in this statement do I claim conservation and alternative fuels will replace all the foreign imports? Developing our own resources (drilling), is the only way I see that can guarantee that. That was the basis of the post.

If all you guys want to believe that technology is available on the required scale to replace our dependence on oil, that's fine with me. I hope you're right. Personally, I prefer to have a safety net.

Enjoy all the furture OPEC oil...

dbspl