LaScala build question

[BEERbrooklyn]

whats a jubilee?/??I'm new here.Still have 601's up front.But i'm open to change.

[jwc]

"Ok, so THAT finally got me thinking... what if you started with a blank piece of paper.... designed the exterior dimensions of the bass bin only, (no top section) to be as wide as the K402."

I can't seem to stop pulling out that paper.

jc

[ClaudeJ1]

Get the dimensions of the Peavy LF-1. Same great folded bass horn sound, 31" wide. That should support a 402 nicely and possibly go deeper. The FH-1 also has a support in the horn mouth- I heard Roger's the other day and there was no cabinet resonance that i could hear at all- very solid build quality.

M

I can attest to that. I own 4 of them for surrounds. I also know where you can just BUY 2 of them for $180, but they are in Boston.

[Coytee]

I can't seem to stop pulling out that paper.

Do you prefer extra strong or extra soft?

[:$]

[twistedcrankcammer]

I'm only asking for conversation sake... cause I'm a curious type.

If someone wanted to build a JubeScala, the plans for the bass bin are evidently, easily found. Great.

If however, someone sees a K402 on top of a LaScala bass bin, they will quickly notice that it might look a bit top heavy. This got me wondering about simply putting the LaScala on its side to make it wider and lower.

That then, got me thinking... what if you lopped off the top section (or perhaps used a split LaScala)... now you've got a smaller footprint BUT you might be back to feeling its a bit out of balance looking...

Ok, so THAT finally got me thinking... what if you started with a blank piece of paper.... designed the exterior dimensions of the bass bin only, (no top section) to be as wide as the K402. That will give you something like what.... six or eight inches of extra room that the current LaScala doesn't have??

Could you effectively build a 'taller' (wider in this example) LaScala bass bin and if you did could you use that extra width to your benefit of sound?

If so, would you gain deeper bass? Would you need different driver?

Coytee,

If you are really considering building it, why not go by PWKs orriginal dimentional recomendations for an 18 inch woofer (like done for old Electro Voice) and make an exact upscaled version of the LaScala base bin. A single 18 inch driver with the same throw as the pair of 12s in a Jubilee is closer in actual air movement to a pair of 12s than a single 15 inch driver. All other factors equal, a single 18 moves slightly more air than a pair of 12s, and should obviously go deeper. You could even pick up an old Electro Voice 18W-K rated at 4 ohms for horn loading. The "K" specifically denotes Klipsch, or for the Klipsch design.

Roger

[jwc]

I can't seem to stop pulling out that paper.

Do you prefer extra strong or extra soft?

Extra soft........excuse me.....gonna get some more coffee.

Richard....are you really considering a build??

jc

[Islander]

whats a jubilee?/??I'm new here.Still have 601's up front.But i'm open to change.

The Jubilee is Paul Klipsch's final creation, which he built with the very able assistance of Roy Delgado. It was intended as an update of the Klipschorn, but turned out to be such an advance that it was given its own name, the Jubilee. It uses two 12-inch woofers and a 2-inch compression driver for a tweeter. The tweeter uses either the large K402 or smaller K510 horn.

The Jubilee is available for around $7000 a pair, delivered, but it comes without crossovers. You can build a passive crossover, but it was designed to be used with two amplifiers (bi-amped) and an active electronic crossover, like the Electro-Voice Dx38. The less expensive way to go is with a pair of Crown XTi1000 amps, which have built-in processing that you can use as a crossover.

The Jubilees are the pinnacle of the Heritage line and are very well-liked by all who've heard them. The construction of the bass bin makes a La Scala look easy, so it might be much simpler to just buy a pair, since you still have to buy all four woofers, plus the tweeters and their horns.

To see how it's done, go to: www.jubilation.ws

[BEERbrooklyn]

They are beautiful.Super awesome job.When wacthinga movie or listen to music does you hair blow back on every bass drop???I love your set up.the other 2 are LaScala's,correct.You made htem also?Are you a carpenter by trade or just a hobby.I'm not a carpenten,but i'm very good a t build things .Excellent pistures,i really appreciate it.They must be very heavy.What woofers did you use?I'm going to attemp the LaScala's first.Still working on my rt-10.But the next ones will be the JUB'sDo you know where i can get easy to read ,detailed measurement and angle drawing.'s??I also need the plans for the rc-7 and rt- 10.I have only dimension's i need the inner design plans..I dont know if there are baffles or support ohn the inside.

Once again Beautiful work,nice on the paint also.I'm a Painter by trade.I put abut 29 coats of laquer on the rt-10's.Great job .Great job.Great job!!!!!!!!!!

[ClaudeJ1]

Therefore, I would not discourage a builder who wants to play with dimensions of a W bin. But I think there is not going to be a great change.

Wm McD

That in itself should be a "why bother" type of discouragment, since the used PA bin market is abundantly cheap. You can't even buy the raw Baltic Birch lumber for the price of the used stuff. Strip the paint, veneer it to make it pretty and call it a day, I say. LOL.

[Islander]

They are beautiful.Super awesome job.When wacthinga movie or listen to music does you hair blow back on every bass drop???I love your set up.the other 2 are LaScala's,correct.You made htem also?Are you a carpenter by trade or just a hobby.I'm not a carpenten,but i'm very good a t build things .Excellent pistures,i really appreciate it.

I wish I could take credit for that excellent Jubilee project, but it's not mine, it's rigma's. He's another forum member with serious woodworking skills and that's his site. I'm listening to JubScalas, La Scalas with Jubilee 510 tweeters (the small ones). JubScalas are sort of the junior version of Jubilees and are less expensive and more compact, if washing machine-sized speakers can be called compact.

[DrWho]

...All other factors equal, a single 18 moves slightly more air than a pair of 12s, and should obviously go deeper...

Not necessarily...not to mention a single 18 would have an extremely difficult time meeting the HF requirements (both the mass corner and inductance corner are gonna kill ya).

I don't mean to discourage using 18's in bass bins (in fact, the peavey 18" lowrider models up very nicely), but the 402 is kind of a waste without a bass bin that can get up to ~800Hz ish.

[Coytee]

Richard....are you really considering a build??

ohhhh, no... just my brain wondering around on different ideas. I've already got 3 LaScalas. One nice pair I bought in 1979 and another beater box that I bought for the bass bin alone to make a JubeScala (that doesn't look like it will happen either....darn wife.... [:@])

Sometimes if I get an idea that seems outside the box a bit, I'll ask it just to see if it has any merit or might light an idea in others (much like the JubeScala which I asked Roy about after I got my Jubes and now they're out there!)

[Coytee]

The Jubilee is Paul Klipsch's final creation, which he built with the very able assistance of Roy Delagado. It was intended as an update of the Klipschorn, but turned out to be such an advance that it was given its own name, the Jubilee. It uses two 12-inch woofers and a 2-inch compression driver for a tweeter. The tweeter uses either the large K402 or smaller K510 horn.

The Jubilee is available for around $7000 a pair, delivered, but it comes without crossovers. You can build a passive crossover, but it was designed to be used with two amplifiers (bi-amped) and an active electronic crossover, like the Electro-Voice Dx38. The less expensive way to go is with a pair of Crown XTi1000 amps, which have built-in processing that you can use as a crossover.

The Jubilees are the pinnacle of the Heritage line and are very well-liked by all who've heard them. The construction of the bass bin makes a La Scala look easy, so it might be much simpler to just buy a pair, since you still have to buy all four woofers, plus the tweeters and their horns.

To see how it's done, go to: www.jubilation.ws

Dang Islander...that was excellent!! [Y]

[colterphoto1]

"Ok, so THAT finally got me thinking... what if you started with a blank piece of paper.... designed the exterior dimensions of the bass bin only, (no top section) to be as wide as the K402."

I can't seem to stop pulling out that paper.

jc

yeah, jc's got a LOT of paper....I'd like to see what his workshop looks like

[colterphoto1]

They are beautiful.Super awesome job.When wacthinga movie or listen to music does you hair blow back on every bass drop???I love your set up.the other 2 are LaScala's,correct.You made htem also?Are you a carpenter by trade or just a hobby.I'm not a carpenten,but i'm very good a t build things .Excellent pistures,i really appreciate it.

I wish I could take credit for that excellent Jubilee project, but it's not mine, it's rigma's. He's another forum member with serious woodworking skills and that's his site. I'm listening to JubScalas, La Scalas with Jubilee 510 tweeters (the small ones). JubScalas are sort of the junior version of Jubilees and are less expensive and more compact, if washing machine-sized speakers can be called compact.

I have four LSI split bins and bought some extra K69's and 510's to play with. How do you compare the 510 sound to the original LS HF top section? And what kind of network do you use for your setup?

btw, excellent write-up on the Jubilee. Marketing should swipe that.

Michael

[Islander]

I have four LSI split bins and bought some extra K69's and 510's to play with. How do you compare the 510 sound to the original LS HF top section? And what kind of network do you use for your setup?

btw, excellent write-up on the Jubilee. Marketing should swipe that.

Glad you liked the Jubilee origin bit. I learned it all here.

So, 510/K-69 compared with original LS HF section? To quote Billy Bragg, who was quoting Chairman Mao, it's "A Great Leap Forward"! Vastly improved detail, plus enhanced stereo effect with some recordings, in the sense of finally hearing what the engineer actually put in the recording, not in any artificial way.

You'll note from my signature that I'm using a Dx38, feeding a pair of Yamaha MX-D1 power amps. They sound great, but as long as you have a pair of matching amps of decent quality, you can look for a used Dx at a reasonable price and have JubScalas on a budget. My Dx is in top shape and was $699 from a guitar shop in California.

The Dx does more than just EQ the tweeter. Roy's settings smooth out the LS bass bin's response in ways a passive crossover never could. The time-alignment feature makes an audible difference, too, mostly on recordings where there's a bass and treble line closely accompanying each other.

Are you thinking of putting together a Jubilee/JubScala surround setup? That would totally rock!

[ClaudeJ1]

The Dx does more than just EQ the tweeter. Roy's settings smooth out the LS bass bin's response in ways a passive crossover never could. The time-alignment feature makes an audible difference, too, mostly on recordings where there's a bass and treble line closely accompanying each other.

No kidding! That nasty 150 Hz. peak so colored the bass from that cabinet. I suspect they have tamed it in the Xover in the LS II, with passive components, but I'm sure it hurts the efficiency a bit.

I think going to a 2" throat with active EQ on the whole system totally STOMPS the little 5/8 inch. throat in the K401's K55-X driver. For the money they charge, they probably should have come up with new horns and drivers for the Khorn top in the 60th Anniversary edition, but I suspect they were too busy working on the Palladium project. Mybe for the 70th?? or the 40th for the LaScala?

Nah, the we DIY freaks would have nothing to improve with commercial components, and what fun would that be?

On the LS in the old literature, you have to distinguich the MARKETING curves from the ENGINEERING curves (the dirty curves).

[Islander]

The Dx does more than just EQ the tweeter. Roy's settings smooth out the LS bass bin's response in ways a passive crossover never could. The time-alignment feature makes an audible difference, too, mostly on recordings where there's a bass and treble line closely accompanying each other.

No kidding! That nasty 150 Hz. peak so colored the bass from that cabinet. I suspect they have tamed it in the Xover in the LS II, with passive components, but I'm sure it hurts the efficiency a bit.

Since some, if not all, of that peak comes from the bass bin's sidewalls resonating, the stiffer 1" MDF of the LS II may address most of it, so there may not be as much "taming" in the new crossover as you might think.

[PrestonTom]

"....

Since some, if not all, of that peak comes from the bass bin's sidewalls resonating, the stiffer 1" MDF of the LS II may address most of it, so there may not be as much "taming" in the new crossover as you might think....."

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I am not so sure about that. As I understand it, if the cabinet was vibrating you not get a peak in freq response. Rather you would get a loss of energy (SPL) at that frequency. Essentially the engery is not being converted to SPL, rather it is being converted to cabinet vibration. However, stiffening up the cabinet via thicker material or bracing is a good idea.

-Tom

[mikebse2a3]

"....

Since some, if not all, of that peak comes from the bass bin's sidewalls resonating, the stiffer 1" MDF of the LS II may address most of it, so there may not be as much "taming" in the new crossover as you might think....."

-----------------------

I am not so sure about that. As I understand it, if the cabinet was vibrating you not get a peak in freq response. Rather you would get a loss of energy (SPL) at that frequency. Essentially the engery is not being converted to SPL, rather it is being converted to cabinet vibration. However, stiffening up the cabinet via thicker material or bracing is a good idea.

-Tom

I believe what you will find is the side walls resonate and like anything that resonates it can be excited by other frequencies close to it's natural resonate frequency so what happens is this resonate frequency gets excited and rings over an extended period of time making it audible once excited. I can remember playing a certain Telarc recording that could set this resonate frequency off and it basically sounded like a cracked piece of wood and all you have to do to stop it is to hold the front part of the bass section's side walls to dampen it. This is were a brace or better damped side walls like the Lascalla II has will dampen the problem area.

mike tn

edit: I would like to clarify that I didn't mean to indicate that this was soley responsible for all the colorations noticed but it is one that can be heard and solved with braces or wall stiffening.