Would Greatly Appreciate Help Choosing An Amp

[Cal Blacksmith]

Hi,

I am new here. I have been browsing for a bit and just last weekend ended up buying some Forte II's after the almost universal praise on here. I hooked them up and have been really enjoying them. I have a Rega P1 TT and have them hooked to a Kenwood VR507 reciever right now. So my question is, what is a good reciever at about $200 or under that would really make these sound better? I am thinking I will go with an older used model. The guy at my local shop reccomended I get the NAD 7150, is that any good? One other thing I thought of, is a preamp at all necessary? Also, would something in this price range actually make an audible difference over the Kenwood I have now? I would really appreciate any input at all as I am not very well versed in Hi-Fi yet.

Thanks

In re-reading this thread, one of your questions never got answered. The answer is yes and no. First some definitons are in order.

Pre-amp. A unit that acts as a switch to select between several different inputs. This unit also has the volume control, it amplifies the inputs and sends that output in an adjustable output form, to the power amp. This unit has any tone controls, filters, Phono amp and the headphone output if the unit has one. Weather or not you choose to use any or all of these features is up to you. A pre-amp may or may not have any or all of these features and can be tube or SS. Older units will sometimes have the ability to switch between and dub to and from tape decks.

Power amp. A unit that takes what is fed it and amplifies it to the maximum of it's capability. The final output to the speakers is regulated by the strength of the signal that is fed into the power amp. This could come from a pre-amp or from a device such as a variable output CD player or tuner. This unit can be tube or SS.

Intagrated amp. A unti that has both a pre-amp AND a power amp in one box.

Tuner, a unit that receives radio signals and converts them to electrical signals that can be sent to a pre-amp or power amp.

Receiver, a unit that combines in one box, a pre-amp, power amp and tuner.

The more the functions of pre-amp, power amp, tuner are seperated (seperates) the more care, quality of components and attention to detail can be paid to each function of the audio chain. This is not to say that good sound is impossible to get from, say a receiver, just that the seperate units are more robust and normaly of better quality. They do take up more room in the equipment stack and use more electricty to get the same job done due to each unti having it's own power supply...... which is part of the reason that they have superior performance.

So, if you have a line level device such as a CD player that has a varrable output, you probably would not need a pre-amp to connect it to the power amp if it is the only thing you are going to listen to without changing cables. However something like a Turn Table will not output a signal loud enough to drive the input of the power amp to a level that would be listenable to. You would then need a PHONO pre-amp to bring the phono signal to a line level signal. A pre-amp that has a phono input will have a phono pre-amp built into the unit and the useage is seamless to the user. Then there is the issue of what type of cartrage you have on the TT but I will leave that for another thread.

[theclipper]

I would recomend that you lood at a good solid tube amp such as this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-FISHER-X-100-2-STEREO-TUBE-AMPLIFIER-X100-AMP_W0QQitemZ230278012176QQihZ013QQcategoryZ119019QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hi Wayne---

Good to see ya hanging around some! Hope you're doing well. Yes, that's a nice amp, and no question would sound far more musical than any of the SS receivers being suggested, but I sense it's "too early in the journey" for this fellow to get wrapped around tubes. I've seen it (premature tubophilia) happen here a few times. I think he's first got to get past the "I need 2,000 watts and 6 subwoofers phase" and then if still interested in the music, a fine instrument like that Fisher might be appreciated.

I am defintely not worried about have super overpowering bass, I don't have any need or want for a subwoofer. Granted I have no experience with tubes but if those offer great sound at a reasonable price I am definitely interested. I just want something that is going to make my Forte's sound great and clear and natural.

Clipper, yes that amp would make the Fort'es sing. That is an intigrated amp that is, it has a pre-amp and power amp only, no tuner with (I am trying hard to remember here) 4 inputs. There should be one each for Tape, Phono, Tuner and Aux. The issue of relability was raised and that could be an issue with ANY older amp. Caps dry out, contacts get dirty, pots get noisy but you pay your money and take your chances. I do indeed love the Fisher sound and I love the sound stage that I got with my Fort'es and my Fisher 400 receiver.

If at all possible, listen to several amps or receivers (seperates are more the norm over receivers here on the board) on your Forte's or other heratage speakers if it is possible. I don't know where you live but there might be someone from the board that has some gear for you to listen to within a reasonable driving distance.

It is hard to help someone with what they should buy as everyone that gets into this hobby have slightly different goals in mind. YOU really need to hear lots of different setups to give yourself a better understanding of just what it is that you want to get out of this hobby.

I do indeed have a HK 430 receiver that I will sell you for what I have into it. It works well but the antanena is loose on the back of the unit. Not an audio defect to be sure. The face plate is fair with some wear but all the lettering is clear and readable though might be a little worn in places. I bought it here on the board a few years ago just to give it a listen and I think I have $75 in it. Add the cost of shipping and it is yours.

Thanks for the advice. I am having a hard time deciding what I want to get. The tubes are intruiging but am not sure about them because of the upkeep. I then thought maybe I'll get a cheaper old one for the time being. I might like to take you up on that offer in the near future for the HK430. Do any of you know how this would compare with the Marantz 2230? I've also had my eye on that.

Thanks

[Cal Blacksmith]

I can't answer as to how the two compair but I know the HK is loved by many here. There is some good advice on the audioasylum board that you posted your question to. Yes tubes can be more expensive to repair but for me the trade off is worth it. If in doubt have Craig here on the board check out whatever you buy, he is a straight shooter and will tell you like it really is.

On my Cornwalls, I found the HKs sound to be a little muted or muddy in the mid range, rolling off a little in the highs with a narrower less discrete sound stage but entirely listenable. Then again, I am compairing theHK to my tube setup that has a new price of over $6k so it really isn't fair.

What ever you decide, I am perfectly happy to have it power my shop setup.

Here is a pic of one if you are interested. Prices on these receivers range from $5 at a yard sale if you get very lucky to as much or more than this guy wants for his.

http://www.audiospecialist.com/sales2.html

Good luck in your search, you will find something that makes you happy, I am sure

Wayne

[Colin]

If you like the sound of phonographs over CDs, I think you will appreciate the harmonics of tube equipment over that of solid-state. That also means you need a receiver, or integrated amplifier, which has a phono section. Having said that, the small class D chip amplifiers, like Sonic Impact and Trends are wonderful sounding bargains for the money, mid-range is not as lush as tubes, but bass is tighter.

[theclipper]

If you like the sound of phonographs over CDs, I think you will appreciate the harmonics of tube equipment over that of solid-state. That also means you need a receiver, or integrated amplifier, which has a phono section. Having said that, the small class D chip amplifiers, like Sonic Impact and Trends are wonderful sounding bargains for the money, mid-range is not as lush as tubes, but bass is tighter.

I definitley prefer the sound of vinyl over cds. I will be using this setup pretty much exclusively for vinyl. I will check out your reccomendations. Thank you

[oldtimer]

I also like vinyl over cd's. It doesn't mean you need or want a tube amp. Refer to my last previous post.

[SWL]

I might like to take you up on that offer in the near future for the HK430.

I missed two opportunities to snag an HK 430 for $50.00 in excellent condition.......in two weeks time. Be patient, there are some good deals out there.

I don't think you can go wrong with vintage HK or Marantz........they go very well with Klipsch.[Y]

[oldbuckster]

Grab that Fisher and be done with it ..... I'd take Marantz over HK, but both are good units ... Solid State or Tubes Doesn't matter, just make some music, and enjoy .............

[fenderbender]

Grab that Fisher and be done with it ..... I'd take Marantz over HK, but both are good units ... Solid State or Tubes Doesn't matter, just make some music, and enjoy .............

But its the wringing of hands and gnashing teeth, the questioning and second guessing, the worrying and debating, the mental anguish and emotional torture.....is what makes buying a new piece of equipment so much fun.........!!!!!! Let him have a few more sleepless nights OB [][][]

[theclipper]

Grab that Fisher and be done with it ..... I'd take Marantz over HK, but both are good units ... Solid State or Tubes Doesn't matter, just make some music, and enjoy .............

But its the wringing of hands and gnashing teeth, the questioning and second guessing, the worrying and debating, the mental anguish and emotional torture.....is what makes buying a new piece of equipment so much fun.........!!!!!! Let him have a few more sleepless nights OB

Ha, that is exactly what it is like! It is so tough to make a decision on what would be the best deal for me since I am so uneducated. That is why I appreciate all the help from this forum!

[fenderbender]

I find that the best way to calm the anguish is to relax and put some distance to the purchase ......even if there is a smokin hot deal today there will be 5 more next week...It's a buyers market in this economy.......

do as much research as possible ....and buy quality not "a deal" In vintage gear, all 20-30 year old equip...will need a refurb eventually so but the most cosmetically perfect piece you can, as you will have to restore the guts. If you go that route speak to repair techs and see if parts are available.....

I would wait and get some more funds together before chosing a tube amp.......

[jacksonbart]

Clip Have you brought one yet?

[Jeff Matthews]

I'd pass on the Marantz 2230. I have one over here. Inherited from my mother-in-law. It's "okay," but when you want to get more out of your speakers, you realize that amp won't do it. Plus, I always get paranoid when the volume knob is turned up in the range of 3/4 of more. I like to know there is plenty of amp to spare.

Nobody mentioned Crown. It's all around. Everywhere. There is much debate about it. Some say they love it. Others say they hate it. Know what I say? "When the debates ride on that long, it must be good." Kind of like Klipsch. On other forums, you will hear Klipsch condemned and praised.

By the way, while my Crown (see signature) was $1000 amp back in the late '80's, I have seen them on a number of occasions for $200-300. Very good amp. Stout. Plenty of power. Very, very clean. I doubt you can kill them. My survived a free fall in 1993 from a shelf about 4' high. It bent the face plate corner. I bent it back. It never affected its performance.

Unless you get bitten by the upgrade bug, it could be the last amp you ever need. I've had my Crown for 20 years and am still very, very happy with it. If you pursue Crown, make sure you are aware some models (mine included) have a built-in fan. They say you can disable the fan, but I never did. My Crown never gets warm - never. I crank the holy crap out of it, and it never gets warm. Many others on this forum can probably fry eggs on their amps after a good listen. [:$][]

[MD1032]

Another vote for the Harman Kardon 430/730 over here. There is just something about that amp that synergizes so well with the Fortes that it's just really unfair at that price point. As a matter of fact, there's a 730 for sale over in the Garage Sale forums that's been recently serviced, and I'm sure would give you many many hours of listening pleasure. After working with mine to get it back up and running, I must say, HK really knows a thing or two about building an amplifier, as this thing is really a tank, electrically and sonically.

[theclipper]

I'd pass on the Marantz 2230. I have one over here. Inherited from my mother-in-law. It's "okay," but when you want to get more out of your speakers, you realize that amp won't do it. Plus, I always get paranoid when the volume knob is turned up in the range of 3/4 of more. I like to know there is plenty of amp to spare.

Nobody mentioned Crown. It's all around. Everywhere. There is much debate about it. Some say they love it. Others say they hate it. Know what I say? "When the debates ride on that long, it must be good." Kind of like Klipsch. On other forums, you will hear Klipsch condemned and praised.

By the way, while my Crown (see signature) was $1000 amp back in the late '80's, I have seen them on a number of occasions for $200-300. Very good amp. Stout. Plenty of power. Very, very clean. I doubt you can kill them. My survived a free fall in 1993 from a shelf about 4' high. It bent the face plate corner. I bent it back. It never affected its performance.

Unless you get bitten by the upgrade bug, it could be the last amp you ever need. I've had my Crown for 20 years and am still very, very happy with it. If you pursue Crown, make sure you are aware some models (mine included) have a built-in fan. They say you can disable the fan, but I never did. My Crown never gets warm - never. I crank the holy crap out of it, and it never gets warm. Many others on this forum can probably fry eggs on their amps after a good listen.

I still haven't bought one yet. I will look into this crown brand. I just want to stress that I have no need to be able to listen to these super loud and make the neighbors go deaf. My main need with this is that it will sound great with vinyl and is really clear.

[Jeff Matthews]

You don't have to sacrifice. You can have loud and clear. Of course, the amps will play at moderate and low volumes, too. The brand is everywhere. I suggest you give it a listen. They have low-end models, like the XTi. I have not heard one. Some say they are okay. I trust you would like the sound of the Microtech and Macrotech series very much, but if you want something pretty, then this is not for you. Keep in mind, these are just the amps. No gadgets, no knobs, no buttons, no meters. Just pure, raw amps. You will need a pre-amp.

Pre-amps are easy to find cheap. Some here put great emphasis on pre-amps. I have heard a few different ones and find the distinctions rather insignificant. When you have a system built on separates, you will appreciate the difference.

Some QSC (a Crown competitor) models are highly regarded on this forum. Anyway, these are my 2 cents. I'd go separates. I'd get plenty of wattage so that you never strain your equipment. With these so-called pro amps I am describing, there is a notable improvement in the punch and tightness of bass, even at moderate volumes. Some describe it as more "authoritative."

[Cal Blacksmith]

Wow, that Fisher was stollen for $211.5 Someone is going to be happy.

I still recomend tubes if you like LPs but whatever you decide, good luck and may you spend many sleepless nights deciding what you are going to do so that you will have peace in the end.[]

[theclipper]

Wow, that Fisher was stollen for $211.5 Someone is going to be happy.

I still recomend tubes if you like LPs but whatever you decide, good luck and may you spend many sleepless nights deciding what you are going to do so that you will have peace in the end.

Yeah I saw that Fisher wen't pretty cheap. Do you have any other reccomendations for tube set ups at or under $500? And just to reiterate, something like that would probably sound better than an old H/K, Pioneer or Marantz?

[mark1101]

How about this? I have one (60wpc version). IMHO this is a giant killer. A great tube amp. You will need a preamp for either of these amps depending on your setup. If you want a REALLY good sounding amp for Klipsch speakers and not be looking to replace it anytime soon this would be a cost effective candidate. You could even save money and build it yourself if you are so inclined.

http://www.tubes4hifi.com/bob.htm

[mark1101]

double post. sorry.