pzannucci

NO! As everyone here has mostly already said, there is no such thing as a meaningful "max." The VC isn't like a water faucet, with a pre-determined maximum outflow that all the other components could be designed to work with. If there was an industry standard for "max" (measured amplifier/receiver v. out), then you might be able to think of all-the-way-up as the reasonable "max" setting for that system. However, speaker efficiency is just one of the huge unknowns in this equation, probably makes an industry standard impossible.Lacking such a standard, one receiver's max can take the amp and speaker output beyond the moon and blow everything out, while another's might not do that. Depending on speaker efficiency, too. The industry will tend to go too far rather than fall short. With apologies for putting it this way, you are very unclear regarding just what "max" means. You would harm your setup if you took your concept seriously. Like blowing out all your woofers. I am not planing on doing this, I ask questions because I don't know the answer(have to start somewhere) the reason I ask, after I hooked up my new sub and receiver I had a friend that wanted me to turn it up all the way, I said no because I have no idea what would happen, so I got thinking about it and thought this would be a good place to ask, thanks for your feedback, sorry for making u angry [emoji12]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Bottom line is it is obvious your friend doesn't know anything about audio equipment if they want to turn it up all the way because they would know max is not a point on the dial or a number on the screen. It is all relative to the output of your amps. If your amps clip at 1/3 volume (some high gain equipment does this) then you are maxed out right there, at 1/3 volume per the knob or screen. End of story. Now the more wattage you have, the less likely you will be able to tolerate max volume because of your ears or distortion. With a very large amp usually you will hear signs of distress when your speakers get to their MAX threshold. Just listen for that and turn it down. Lower wattage amplifiers may not sound in distress but may blow things up.

The Pioneer SC Series will have more than enough power and considering it is Class D3, will have significant ability to drive the low end of RF7s I have an earlier SC-1222 that I have run with my KLF-30s. It will drive those KLF-30s(comparable impedance and efficiency to the RFs) strongly on the bottom end and literally blow you out of the room. My room is 22x22x9 which opens to a wide open gallery / kitchen area so a very large space to fill. Concert levels, yes from a receiver I bought new for $400 (MSRP $1100 at the time). I'm not saying a separate amp, such as the Rotel with IcePower modules or the Marantz might not be better (possibly a drop for the extra cash) but I will say the Pioneer acquits itself quite well compared to my Emotiva XPA-2 which is also no slouch. I have run the pre-outs of the Pioneer into the XPA-2 for a while and found it not enough better (if at all) to keep the complexity and huge amp sitting there in that configuration. The Emotiva may have been better if I fed it with a very good front end though now you are talking a lot more money for a little return.

Most likely prices are rising because they can. If you look at the landscape for speakers, many people won't take you seriously as a manufacturer unless your prices are gouge worthy. The old model was quality or quantity, which do you want to do? Now it is just cut quantity, raise prices and everyone will come flocking.

I've seen this repeated elsewhere: I strongly disagree. You should try it instead of listening to naysayers. . . . YMMV. Chris For me, not daunting, for others, yes. The settings on the subject for multi-amping is available but the ability to tweak for the room is a big plus on the active configuration of course. This is not as easy as having a passive network where you just hook up speaker cables. How many people still hook speakers up out of phase and you'd want them to set up a multi-amp configuration? To me a good bass horn's sound the most natural (unless you have a lot of radiating area with woofers).The low/mid cross, low cross (read long midrange horn) to tweeter time delays and being forced to multi-amp has moved me away from larger horn/bass horn systems.

Seeing all that data together, especially on the Cornwalls makes me wonder. Didn't they always use a K-33 woofer? Shows how flexible the art of specifications has become. Lower frequency response with higher efficiency. Pretty good.

Miami305NATIVE, Thank you for the response. I go between South FL and Texas a lot so if I decided to pull the trigger on a set of speakers down there, I wanted to know what may need to be done to them, or conversely what I may want to do to them. Thanks again.

Any pictures of the imperfection so perspective buyers can see what you are referring to? "Only one imperfection is on a speaker cabinet (side panel:spot on upper corner), but other than that they are perfect." Also, are you the original owner? I would like to know if those are Klipsch factory lacquer or stained done at home with poly? Thanks.

Canyonman, What do you mean by time aligned for the mid and tweeter? Are you talking the tweeter is at the same position as the mid-range driver? With the passive network you have to get rid of the time delay (or rather delay) for the mid and tweeter to each other and the 7 ft pathway for the bass horn. Depending on the passive network and the electrical phase of the driver, you can only get rid of a small portion of that time delay. The passive network implies that you will have a certain amount of eq and rolloff built into the network itself. For a lot of people trying to simulate this roll off and eq in an active network is very painful. Also what will sound good to one person may not sound good to another. To each his own based on their ability to handle the complexity, tuning, and cost of the active setup.

The Pioneer SC series receivers will drive lower impedances like the RF7 better than the VSX series. VSX being a class A/B will also likely not put out as much power when driving all the channels. Class D3 SC series holds up better when driving multiple channels and low impedances due to being Class D. If you look at some of the Sound and Vision mags, they explain some of that.

Reference level can be tied meaningfully to a specific main volume control setting when running movies on Blu-ray only in a calibrated sound system and room. It is not associated with a given MVC setting when playing music, because the music industry has failed to adopt standards that will allow you to reliably achieve reference level at a certain specific main volume control setting in your room with your speakers. You could measure your peaks with a SPL meter, but many SPL meters have problems. Those with a needle will underestimate the level of brief beaks, because of needle balistics (incidentally, SPL meters like the Radio Shack are lousy at measuring frequency response, and the various correction sheets on the Internet contradict each other). For music, set your SPL levels for each piece of music by ear, conservatively. With most, but not all sound systems, if you have Audyssey, it will calibrate your system so that reference level -- with movies only -- from your listening position, in your room, will be reached with the main volume control at 0 dB. It is important to use all 8 microphone positions when Audyssey calibrating. That reference level will have maximum brief leading edge peaks of 105 dB through your main speakers, and 115 dB brief leading edge peaks through your subwoofer. If you have very efficient speakers (like Klipsch RF 7s, La Scalas, Belle Klipsch, Klipschorns, etc.) you have to do some fancy foot work to get a known main volume control position that is equal to reference level in your room. Audyssey wil lock your volume control at 0 while calibrating, then try to turn your very efficient speakers down when setting the internal trims, but will not be able to turn them down enough. There are various ways to deal with this, some of which are discussed by Audyssey in their materials. One way is to use attenuators while calibrating, to do the equivalent of making your speakers temporarily less efficient, then take the attenuators off after calibration. Reference level will now be below 0, by a number of dBs equal to the value of the attenuators. For instance, with my Klipschorn/Belle system, reference level = -12 dB. Unfortunately, this method only works if you have a processor loop, or if you have separate power amplifier(s), so the attenuators can be temporarily inserted between the preamp/processor and the power amp. There are a couple of other ways to do it. One was explained by Chris K (Audyssey CTO) on Ask Audyssey, and another one was used by another Klipsch forum member, whose name I forget. garyrc, After reading this thread your response reminds me of the old song by the Talking Heads, "Stop Making Sense". Speaking of loudness, when you listen very loud it will depend on if you have a room that is 10x12x7 or 25x20x12 with an open wall and how far you sit away from the speakers. The amount of power you use for the same loudness in the bigger room will probably be four times. As far as amplifiers, if you had something like an Emotiva with LEDs to show instantaneous output vs a VU meter which typically has a long rise time and typically shows average, you might know a lot more about what the amplifier is doing with the speakers. If you had am amp like an Adcom, you could see when the amplifier went into distortion. I had an original set of Paradigm Studio Monitor speakers (precursor to the Studio 100s) and I used to see the Adcom instantaneous distortion lights flash on that unit. Mind you that they would only flash but that was 325 watts or so. The key is really how long you operate in distortion as higher clean power has less chance of blowing a speaker. In the 70s I had a Harman Kardon 20 watt integrated amp that had blown the woofers in a quite robust speaker at the time, a BIC Venturi 6 which handled 125 watts. You do the math, 200Watt Adcom powering to 300+ watts into 2 8" woofers that sang or a 20watt powering a robust 12" that blew.

Too many things involved to say you can turn your receiver up full. Full is until your receiver clips. The peaks that are clipped are likely minute points in time. Depending on how many channels you have running, it could be as low as 50 watts. Also depends on the load of the speakers. If you could keep your receiver under clipping while running it, in theory you should be able to run the receiver up to clipping. Unfortunately there is no way to tell unless you have instantaneous clip lights on the receiver and none that I know of do. Most times your receiver will be running along at about 15 watts max but to get it just just barely louder would require 30-40 watts which with peaks at that level, likely clipping. Bottom line is don't think you can turn your knob to full or your digital readout to infinity without compromising something since you are likely pushing the amplifier way too hard.

Tung oil hardens as it sits. Also it is easier to fix scratches than something like urethane.

Hit it with about 10 coats of tung oil with #0000 steel wool. That finish should glow with a shine that goes deep.

Based on the documentation on their design, they should be solid for the price. If you are looking at the competitors then for 1/5 the price, they are worth a shot. All cable changes are subjective, good or bad, so why buy anything for retail and some absurd price when 95% of the time you are not sure it is going to make a change that you would think is for the better in your system. $39 or $59 is more a buy and try budget vs $300 for most of us.

I have an 85ES that might have your name on it then. I compare it to the purists. Purists don't like complexity and are not looking for convenience, rather pride on simplistic, no remote controls and stuff that "might" affect the sound. I think a similar mindset is in place for changers and computers. Too complex, - no good. Now computers have grabbed hold including music servers because they can sound very good. Carousels, not.... was always all about convenience where computers will do many other things that are significant to many users. That's why they are now becoming accepted. They had to get over the hump of complexity to some breakthrough point for adoption. Oh, now it is a good idea. Like Class D also though that may actually be the other way around.

Think the early RF3 and RF3II were wood veneer. At least my rb5s are.

The location of the original sound will still be the same so the alignment in a chamber would be the same. What the directivity does affect is the way the room interacts with the frequencies causing room modes and reflections either smearing the sound or messing with the frequency response. What bothers me most is horizontal alignment of drivers. Depending on toe in, the time can change significantly. You do need to literally sit in one location because the frequency response will many times deviate dramatically depending on the angling of the speakers. This can be a good thing or bad. I much prefer vertically aligned drivers.

That would be a good choice if the power amplifiers have good sound quality. That can save a lot of money over separate EQ units, external amplifiers, and associated cables. Chris It seems like a solution to phase and driver overlap can't be done without being able to isolate out the different radiating points for each frequency band. In other words, in the time domain, each driver has to be driven separately and time/phase corrected to be in alignment. Additionally we still have to manage the driver overlap and perceived angle that the overlap is most correct (referring to the picture with the ellipse showing the phased centers of the drivers). In a non-active setup, you can not correct in most horn configurations the phase relationships between say a 24db per octave slope on the crossover and it's time domain modifications. The higher order filters are good to cut down on overlap and lobing problems but pose other issues. Companies like Vandersteen use multi-way configurations using low order (6db filtering typically) with a 4 or 5 way system to cut down on the time domain issues. This exacts a price in requiring many drivers/crossover combos and dynamic range due to each driver having to operate without being significantly attenuated outside of it's optimum pass band. The upside of this type of configuration is a slight baffle slope with a lot of drivers and low order slope crossovers, can achieve close to excellent time / phase relationship at a particular point in space without resorting to multi-amped active setups. Hard to do with horns and sound paths of 7 feet or more. My opinions of course though it is great to experiment a lot with the multiple configurations and topographies, provided your pocket can handle it. or maybe not.

That Tweeter diaphragm is a plastic POS and has no right being used in a Klipsch speaker. I also believe a LaScala, Belle, Khorn also sound better than the KLF for some of the very same reasons. The KLF is a very good speaker especially once the glued box and tweeter have been dealt with. Too bad Klipsch started using the poly dome on most speakers in the II's referenced era, like the Heresy II. I myself kept the KLF-30s over La Scalas because of the K400 nasal sound and screechy highs from the k-77. In my room, the KLF-30s compared very favorable to my Khorns which were sitting right behind them. The KLF-20 woofers do sound better in some ways to the KLF-30s but there is a much less nasal or screech sound from them due to the horns and balance. Bass from Cornwalls is more tubby. A lot of people like that though.

A double Post doesn't help you get answers here. Per my post in the other thread: The KLFs, as stated earlier, will sound more open in the mids though almost the exact same driver. The horn here makes a difference. Tweeter ditto. The KLFs will have a tighter, maybe more thin bass compared to the Cornwall IIs since the the Cornwall IIs will sound a little more round (hard to explain, maybe more tubby and less tight). A lot of folks like that type of bass. The KLFs will require better feeding (high current amplifier). The better the amp you use, the more you will be satisfied with the KLFs (Moray James is quite correct here). The Cornwalls are not quite as picky so you can get away with less push if you choose to go that way. Also the ports on the back of the KLF require the speaker to be a foot or so off the wall minimum. Cornwalls are front ported so they can get closer to the wall. That said, they are both great speakers and your ears will be the deciding factor.

The KLFs, as stated earlier, will sound more open in the mids though almost the exact same driver. The horn here makes a difference. Tweeter ditto. The KLFs will have a tighter, maybe more thin bass compared to the Cornwall IIs since the the Cornwall IIs will sound a little more round (hard to explain, maybe more tubby and less tight). A lot of folks like that type of bass. The KLFs will require better feeding (high current amplifier). The better the amp you use, the more you will be satisfied with the KLFs. The Cornwalls are not quite as picky so you can get away with less push if you choose to go that way. Also the ports on the back of the KLF require the speaker to be a foot or so off the wall minimum. Cornwalls are front ported so they can get closer to the wall. That said, they are both great speakers and your ears will be the deciding factor.

If you want to take a small step first get yourself a good tube preamplifier or a tube buffer. Not really the same as a tube amplifier but you will have some idea of what the tube sound is about. I definitely prefer a tube preamp with SS amps with Klipsch speakers. I also have a tube amplifier that I do enjoy also. There is a difference in sound. Both sound equally good but different. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jolida-JD102CRC-tube-amplifier-DEMO-/262064554174?hash=item3d0443c0be:g:vqUAAOSwa39UrJO Actually that Jolida is a nice integrated for the price. The small step of using a tube buffer will be nice but not indicative of a tube amplifier though will tell you a little about the smoothing many tube amp lovers like. A tube amp typically - has a complex interaction with the speaker which will make matching a key to get the desired target response and drive. - does not punch like a GOOD solid state (lower impedance drive nor have the dampening) unless you pay big bucks - will usually be noisier than a solid state amp Tubes will usually provide a more relaxed and musical representation, less analytical. My 2 cents at least. Edited to clarify I wasn't talking about the original amp reference.

Based on the serial numbers, does anyone know if these are 1's or so called 1.5s?

24" was used to handle the pulled k-400/k-401 horns from Klipsch horns. Much smaller depth if you use a different type of horn, higher crossover, or 2" exit driver.

As long as you covered the holes with the stick on feet, you should be good. The rubber padded stick on feet like you put on chairs or possibly the hard plastic so you can slide them to clean will really work well. If you want to put the nuts back in and raise them 3/4" then use https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1LENN_enUS558US559&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=rubber%20nut%20caps