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(respectful snip!) This being said i personally choose the la scala over a khorn, and choose a "modded" cf4 over a khorn. All above being considered. -Alex +++ That's what prompted me to start this thread to begin with, Alex. I found your comments interesting about a modded speaker beating out what many consider the "best" Klipsch. This thread is in your honor! +++ I haven't really responded to Sancho's list further upstream, but the link to how he did his thread in Audio Karma a few years ago is what I was getting at. I really like the idea of a pyramid, rather than my terrible idea of assigning the "average" a 50 as a standard, then everything being relative to that. Part of the problem in evaluating speakers, is when you look at the comments of the speakers listed in the Klipch product pages; EVERY speaker rates a 5 out of 5! That doesn't help!

Last chance advice: Is the power chord hard wired? If not, completely un-plug it, then plug it back in. I have learned the hard way, never to assume. I once took apart a Honda 100 engine because while I was riding it wide open, it just stopped and I assumed I had put a hole in the piston, a common problem with those bikes at that time. While re-assembling the bike, I discovered they run better with gas in the gas tank.

Scrappy, didn't he say the entire newer set up will cost him $500? How much more can you save from that by going smaller with RF-62's? "I did just come across the following on Craigslist too though. Ref IV RF-82 RS3 and RC3 for $500"

LOL! Perfect! +++ I almost hate to ask this, but why ask us? Why not ask Bill Fitz? He posts on AVS.com frequently and his is very active in answering questions of all kinds, I bet he knows exactly how that slight mod would affect his Tuba design. Or email him directly at: http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/

Obviously, nothing to disagree with here! I'd like to pull some of your quote: "I would also recommend buying a new mouthpiece (Bach is a good brand for this), ask the band director to suggest the size." I agree, the band teacher on the local level is best able to make that recommendation. My son started with a larger mouthpiece, but that is what worked best for him, and what he felt comfortable with. My son was an athlete, had great lungs, and it was no problem for him to push more air through a slightly larger MP. Your daughter might have thinner or larger lips, pushing air might be new to her, so what worked for my son might not work a smaller girl. Buying a MP locally might be a better idea for a first mouthpiece. Go to your local music store and let your daughter try out different mouthpieces and see what works best for her, what is comfortable for her. She may have thinner lips or whatever, and a different MP we haven't even mentioned here might be a better fit for her. Music store salesmen are often ex-band directors, so finding some expert opinion in the store is likely. Kids this age often get braces, which makes them alter the way they play their instrument. It is possible to get a MP with a wider rim that is more comfortable. There are people who do this for a living who can give you personal guidance and help your daughter find the best fit for her. TROMBONE PROF: Do you have an opinion about the new plastic or Lexan mouth piece's? I don't know anything about them. Canadian Brass web site

I loved going through the band experience with my son. He was everything I was not. I was never a musician, I was a drummer.

I used to own a trumpet player! (pictured in my avatar) I can guide you, my friend. First of all, congratulations on having a daughter with some musical ability. There are a LOT of studies showing the correlation between playing music and intelligence. The skills required to play music develops all parts of the brain. Buy Used: No matter how responsible your daughter is, accidents happen. This first trumpet will be dropped, dinged and dented, and there is not much you can do about it. Six to nine hundred is not a bad price for a decent used trumpet, I would not go under $200 unless there is some kind of special deal. Buy a brand name: I would suggest Bach or Yamaha. Parts are readily available, nearly any music store can fix them. My son had a used Bach TR-200 I purchased for about $600 off Ebay. Because Bach holds its value when he moved to a better horn I sold it for $800. Don't be afraid to put some money into the horn, because the brand names hold their value at resale time. Other good names are King, Getzen. There are others, let me know if you have specific questions. Buy a Student Model: To be more specific, don't buy a high-end professional model. The pro models like the Yamaha Xeno is thinner for a more brilliant sound, but it dents easier. The student models are heavier and the sound is just a bit darker. The Bach TR-200 has a more robust build (extra bracing and thicker metal), but it is virtually the same design as the high-end Bach Stradivarius aka "Bach Strad." Silver plated vs Lacquer (gold or yellow looking): Either is fine. The silver plated horns usually cost a bit more, but the differences in the sound (dark=lacquer vs bright) is so subtle and will make no difference whatsoever from now until high school. We bought a silver plated Bach because my son thought it looked "cool." Do not rule out the "cool" factor when a 6th grader is figuring out what they like. Do NOT buy a Chinese trumpet from Ebay: These are pure junk, they play out of tune, and after buying one, it will fall apart, no one can get parts to fix them. After you throw it away you will still have to buy a trumpet for your daughter. These include ANY trumpet with color, red, purple, etc, Don't be deceived by the names "pro" or "band approved." Buy a gig bag: Save the good factory case, the nice case will add to the re-sale value when the time comes. It will also be better for the trumpet to have your daughter carry a heavily padded case with a shoulder strap. She will be bringing the horn home from school every day and on weekends so she can practice every day for 30-45 minutes. Mouthpiece size: Most band directors will start beginners out with a 7-C. This has a small bore and makes it easier to play. If your daughter can handle it, start her out with a 3-C. It is a medium bore with a rim that is wide and comfortable, and it is considered a more advanced MP. My son used a 3-C immediately because he liked it more than the 7-C, and he used it through HS without ever having to learn on two MP's. The 3-C needs more air to go through it, but the sound is fatter and more symphonic like. A 1-C is very large and would never be used by a beginner. Mouthpiece type: There are two kinds, silver plated and gold plated. Both are fine, it's personal preference. The gold plated has a different "feel" on the lip to the player, and is almost always preferred. I would suggest buying new, since girls don't like having something that was in someone else's mouth. The terms "3-C, 7-C" are Bach's designations and are almost universally used by others. If you come across another brand's model number, there is a chart that will cross-over that company's name to the size in Bach. Bach is the #1 standard, also good are Yamaha and premium would be Schilke. The Ultimate Trumpet Mouthpiece Comparison Chart The US Army Band has fantastic musical training videos, and your band director can get the original CD for free by asking the Army for it. Here is the video on You Tube. It should be required viewing for any student, AND band parent.

This is a sour grapes thread and has no legitimate purpose other than to bash a product because the thread starter had a bad experience and is now being a baby about it. It's a troll post if I ever saw one. I'm interested to see how our new moderators deal with it.

Almost mint!

I am still a rookie here, my knowledge of Klipsch is limited, so those points are well taken. I know there is some discussion amongst purists about the definition of "Heritage." My intention was to be MORE inclusive, so perhaps someone could suggest a better thread title. I am not trying to nudge the forum one way or the other, I was just interested in seeing some rankings/ratings of discontinued gear, since that is likely what most often becomes available on the used market. The Klipsch seems to have three-year runs of various models, including my own 20 year-old CF-4. It's interesting to see to see how the CF-4 stacks up against other historic speakers. And of course if the upgrade-is bug bites, what speakers might constitute a substantial upgrade.

I don't have the Top Ten (or whatever) list, but I'd like to see it. I think somebody sometime compiled such a list, but I don't know how to search for it. What I would like to see added to the list, is to rank order the stock speakers then add in modded speakers. Is a stock LaScala better than a fully modified Heresy? By how much? Somebody out there knows. If this list is not out there, then maybe we can come up with one, either rank order or by numerical rating. I would propose a scale of 1-100, with 50 being average, something along those lines, but then you would have to rate the "average" speaker, so other speakers could be compared to that standard. Adding pictures would be nice. I think we could do that.

I think Ebay will protect the Buyer if the product is "not as advertised." I suggest you contact Ebay since the Seller is uncooperative. Get as much money back as you can, then walk away from it, send it back, but do whatever you need to, to get it out of your house. Even if you keep it, you will think about it and be angry every time you listen to it, even if you get it working. That negative feeling alone is a deal breaker for me.

Here are some RF-82's for $630. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-audio-gear/1629577-klipsch-rf-82-a.html#post26286073 (not affiliated) And a center RC-62II http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-audio-gear/1644265-fs-klipsch-rc-62ii.html

I did not use the foam/wool, I think Alex G did that. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/151115-epic-cf4-mods-amp-rack-build/#entry1753343 +++ I used a tube of pure GE Silicone Seal per horn to bring the "rap test" sound down about an octave, with no more ringing when rapping the horn with a knuckle. Mine has the K-63 compression driver. I then took out the 2 bottom sheets of stock foam and replaced them with a pound or less of Fiber-fil, from Wal-mart. It is in there loose around the ports, but not blocking the ports. The overall effect was that it eliminated that harsh distortion in the mid-range that completely irritated me, and lowered the overall sound about a third of an octave. So now a piano note has gone from a tinny, inaccurate sound, to a MUCH more natural and accurate sound. A piano no longer sounds thin and nasal, but full and accurate. I feel like I lost NOTHING with these mods.

Most people don't want to get stuck trying to sell a single center speaker, so see if he will give you a "deal" on the center if you pay the asking price on the RF-82II's. The RC-62II would be a good match for the RF-82II. Note: I am not the ultimate authority on setups like this, so if you get some other advice, feel free to ignore me and listen to them. It won't hurt my feelings.

I highly recommend taking in a show on Broadway. You can get discount tickets same day of a show at a kiosk in Times Square called TKTS. https://www.tdf.org/nyc/7/TKTS-ticket-booths When I say "show" that can be a musical or a play. I would got to a musical. Lion King and Phantom of the Opera would be top choices, both are hugely popular, so get tickets early. Others good choices would be Aladdin, Book of Mormon, and a classic, Les Miserables. If you go to a matinee (afternoon show) those are cheaper. There is something else that is close to that called "off-Broadway" shows (Broadway is a street in NYC). Check out those shows too if you wish, there are very high quality shows off-Broadway. http://www.broadway.com/

Mine are brass colored, knurled. They would work for you, but they would not match.

That is a really nice looking box, an obviously very well thought out and executed project. It physically looks a lot like my giant CF-4's, at 108 pounds each. It is sitting beside my DIY SEOS speaker, Fusion 10. Compare the mat my speaker is sitting on, to yours. I'm looking forward to your listening reviews.

Can you post a picture of the old binding posts? I have a few from another project, so If I have its brother, I'll send it to you.

Chad, I would say two things; your point system is more than generous, and that you are far more patient than me. I would have made it a FIVE point system, ten at the most. Anyone who gets banned from this site is trying to get banned. Thaddeus.

That's what I was expecting, $650 to $750 all day long, depending on condition and version. I know the Ver 1's are more desirable, but most buyers would not know that. Klipsch-a-philes certainly would.

I didn't respond to the DWAFM post after I figured out what it was, simple post where the THREAD STARTER wanted to vent, and was not asking for advice. I followed the post and saw the way is spiraled out of control and got personal, in a negative way. I thought the post was PERFECT for our Potential New MODERATORS, whom we VOTED FOR to weigh in and find how they would have dealt with that thread, and some of the posters, i.e.: ignore the thread, it's fine, just some good back-and-forth lively conversation going on PM some name callers informing them of potential consequences if it didn't stop Post publicly in a general way (not personal) that the tone of the conversation needs to stop lock the topic (and I think it was locked for a while, not sure what happened how it became unlocked again) delete the topic ban some posters. I know what I would have done.

What musical genre do you listen to? Also, are you going to use this in 2.0 or 2.1 mode, or will you go to a 5.1 configuration? I am using mine basically in a 5.1 setup, but I liked the CF-4's so much in the low end, I disconnected the sub, for a 5.0 setup. +++ If you want to, I'd like you to suggest a piece of music we can both listen to, and even Youtube is fine with me, as long as we are listening to the same piece. I'd like you to review what you are hearing, and I'll review the same music on my lightly modded CF-4, with as much consistency as we can get. The sounds I am most sensitive to is female vocals, jazz featuring brass (think Stan Kenton or Maynard Ferguson), drums/cymbals, and maybe piano. I know it won't have the oopmph of a true A/B comparison, but it might be fun. +++ I have found this piece can expose the sounds of my system:

I think it's funny that in every ad for those I've ever seen, they advertise that they weigh 108 pounds! I agree, they are worth every bit of $500, and frankly should be worth a bit more.

Those binding posts are easy to replace, you can find them on Ebay, about $5, free shipping.