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Everything posted by geoff.
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Hi @AnalogPete, this seems like deja vu, but I recently built a couple different ALK designs to hear for myself in my La Scalas, apples to apples. To date I’ve built the ALK A, ALK A/4500, ALK for Klipschorn, and most recently the CSW-450. I guarantee you will NOT like the CSW-450 in your Khorns. With the stock 33uF cap it crosses at 600(-ish) from the squawker. It also drives the woofer higher before it crosses, which Khorns won’t reproduce. I have since cannibalized those boards after jumpering parallel capacitor values to simulate both the mid and woofer filter values of other ALK and Klipsch designs. The ALK for Klipschorn is the gear to my ear. It has the second order woofer filter you (and I) seek. The stock CSW-450 would be great in a Cornscala. John Warren also has a design similar to the ALK for Klipschorn that I built as well. His design really centers on the flexibility of the squawker filter and allows you to pick whichever woofer and tweeter filter you prefer. Ironically I found the simple first order 2.5mH woofer filter to sound the best (?). *** If you opt for an ALK design there has been a recent “improved” revision to the coil value in the tweeter circuit, Al has penned a value of .15mH vs the original .20mH.
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Hi @dondrummond, I have a pair of LSIs that had a similar issue with one woofer and I wound up finding a replacement on eBay. Shipping was a killer for me, but if you’re in the states you shouldn’t get zinged too hard. I am in the habit of hitting all the drivers with an ohmmeter when I get a pair of used speakers home and found the woofer to be reading a little high so I took it out of the doghouse to have a better look. The basket was a little hung up when I pressed on it and finally settled on a reading of over 22 ohms so it got recycled.
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@beanman3, just reading all this now. You say you have a line on a “good deal” for a pair of Chorus(es)? If you like the Heresys, you will love the Chorus. My humble suggestion is to buy the Chorus and sell whichever pair you least prefer after comparing them, apples to apples, in your own home for a few weeks. Try to resist the urge to upgrade until you’ve at least hashed out which are the keepers.
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I’m in Canada too, an hour north of Toronto. That does throw a wrench in things. #1 caveat - whatever you do, don’t use UPS to ship from the U.S., ever. They tack on their own exorbitant brokerage fee in addition to actual duty. I just got burned again and suddenly remembered why I hadn’t used UPS in years, like a decade. UPS is like the Taco Bell, or Canadian Tire Auto Centre, of shipping; you immediately remember why you haven’t been there for years the moment you get stung. Solen, Q Components, and Parts Connexion are great sources domestically. Parts Express out of the States is pretty competitive when they run their specials, and the first order is usually 10% off. Make a list and check it twice, multiple shipping costs are a killer. IF you find a deal on eBay and the seller hasn’t listed Canada as a ship to address AND hasn’t received any bids yet, they CAN relist their ad with eBay’s Global Shipping Program and it becomes stupid cheap to ship from the U.S. There are some very accommodating sellers on eBay, and CAM and our brothers and sisters on USAM. How much of a hurry are you in? I probably have everything in my “laboratory” to put together a pair of AA crossovers that could be converted to A with a some wire shuffling if you don’t get any hits through other channels. Jeebus, the Crites Gold are now $1134 (!) CDN and the Copper are $750 ! But this brings up a more prudent question, what are the actual squawker and tweeter designations in your Klipschorns? The AA doesn’t play as nice with the more recent iterations, in which case you may want to pursue a different option? Once again, this is the place for questions, you’ve got some heavy hitters on these forums.
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@Jdiesel87, snipe a pair of E crossovers off of eBay for 150 bucks and then get the polyester caps you need from Crites and the tweeter coil from Parts Express. There's probably a pair on eBay as we speak. I really think you want the T2A autoformer. There's some magic there with the K-55. When it's all said and done you might be in for less than $300. Don't be shy with any questions. The more you ask the more opinions you will get. Most of them qualified, lol.
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I absolutely agree with this observation. Hearing is believing. I recently sold a pair of KP-301s to a gentleman that was on his way next to pick up a pair of H4s. In a follow up conversation he mentioned the H4s were "very smooth and a real pleasure to listen to, but do not have the scale of the 301s, not even close". My first pair of Forte 2s were purchased from a gentleman that was also selling Belles (way above my paygrade then). He had the Belles playing when I arrived and when he switched to the Forte 2s my heart sank, lol. They were wonderful speakers in my price range, but they weren't Belles.
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@RichardRed, I use this stuff to safely remove stickers from any gear. I also use it with the black marker trick to touch up black speakers without leaving the sheen. It’s the stuff car manufacturers recommend for the weatherstripping once a year (it’s in the back of the manual, lol). There are other brands but this one goes on sale pretty cheap a couple times a year at Princess Auto, our equivalent of Harbor Freight. I usually let it soak for several minutes before trying to remove stubborn stickers. Old paper labels will turn translucent and then you know it’s saturated. This may sound like too much work, but to make sure I don’t accidentally scratch anything I usually wind up using my thumbnail as a scraper, and paper towels to remove the excess. It leaves a dull shine that fades with time.
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Mike, thank you for your detailed reply, as always ! No headaches, just more pieces of the puzzle. I wondered recently why Klipsch would use a 4mH coil and 100uF to produce the woofer filter when a cheaper 2.5mH and 150uF-ish combination would produce a similar value. This new light you shed may be the reason, or part of it?
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I am not sure if I understand this correctly, but I don’t think you want to go too high in a bass bin ? From what I have heard, vocals coming out of a bass bin don’t sound right. I encourage all thoughts on this. IF(!) I understand the workings of the various woofer filters used in Klipsch crossovers, the second order 4mH/140uF combination used in the AL-3 results in a 212Hz cross and the 4mH/100uF combination used in the AK-3 Klipschorn results in a 251Hz cross. But, the Klipschorn bass bin dies out sooner than a La Scala so the vocals go with it, in effect a much steeper slope. I’ve been playing with different crossover designs on my La Scalas and have found the AK-3 woofer filter to be the limit before vocals get muddy, it also seems to really help crossing the squawker as low as possible. But the conundrum here, is I’ve heard Belles (with a bass bin that extends to 500Hz) and did not find them muddy in the least. I also own and enjoy Peavey FH-1 bins that go solidly up to 500hz, and sound great, albeit with crossovers designed for the La Scala and Khorn - so, still crossing much lower than the limit. Most recently I built an ALK CSW clone with the standard values (3mH/80uF - 325Hz and 33uF - 600Hz) to try on my La Scalas and it left me flat. Not at all worth it. After I jumpered another 20uF on the woofer for 290Hz and 13uF on the 33uF for a 430-ish Hz cross it sounds WAY better, to me. Almost as nice as the ALK design for the Khorn - it uses a 54uF cap to cross from the squawker around 370 Hz and the AK-3 woofer filter. Once again, all thoughts are welcome here.
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And gone in 60 seconds
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@John kal Here in Canada you would be paying over a grand for just the tweeters and the crossovers, IF you were lucky enough to find a pair of ALK Universals cheap. As mentioned those are the earlier ALK Universals with better parts than what is currently being offered for $500 USD (685 CDN!) and the SMAHL tweeters are $325 USD (445 CDN!). Those prices do not include shipping and customs ! You are practically getting everything else for $500. That's a go from where I sit, which is in front of a pair of beat up LSI Splits with the same tweeters and a DIY ALK Universal clone.
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@Dave MacKay @geoff.
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@JerrysMiddleFinger, a little late to the party, as usual, but how “easy” did the Ti diaphragms go in ? I read the caveats about them and still managed to snap the “tinsel” leads on one of the diaphragms I swapped years ago. Any flexing, or forcing of the assembly is a recipe for disaster. Do you have a multimeter you could check them with ?
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LaScala equalizer or tweeter volume control question
geoff. replied to hugot's topic in 2-Channel Home Audio
@hugot, maybe a silly question, but what drivers are in the La Scalas that you are using the AAs in? -
@KT88, more confusion for you, your first picture shows a K-33-V ?! …your welcome, lol As to your thoughts about using the woofers from your La Scalas in the Khorns and buying new Eminence woofers for the La Scalas, from my experience that is pretty sound thinking. Unless… the bass bin for YOUR model of Khorn was designed differently from the ones using the K-33-E ? I thought I had read something on this forum about a bass bin change, maybe in the AK crossover versions, so maybe of no consequence to you ? Regarding the La Scalas, I gave the Kappa 15Cs a run in my “regular” La Scalas with the AL-3 crossover years ago and was instantly taken aback by the increase in all aspects of their performance compared to the K-33s they replaced. The best word I could find to describe the impact was “supercharged”. I now own LSI Splits with the K-43 woofers, and the Kappa 15Cs are in my FH-1 bins. I whole-heartedly preferred the 15Cs in the Peavey bins as well though when compared to both the square magnet and round magnet K-33s I have floating around. One caveat though is that the foam gaskets on the Kappa 15Cs need to replaced with a hard paper gasket kit. I believe a significant amount of the energy and dynamics the woofer produces would be lost by having a “shock absorber” between the woofer frame and the motorboard. I had originally gotten around this necessity by torquing down the screws so tight the foam was compressed into the woofer frame, but in retrospect I was lucky I didn’t strip or snap a bolt, or warp the stamped frame. Even with torquing them like the bolt pattern on a car tire. My current pairs have had the foam gaskets replaced with paper.
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@S391, It looks to me like your LSs are 1988. Klipsch was a real mixed bag as they improved each model with available inventory. If you look at the schematic for the AL-2 it looks like they used up their inventory of 2.5mH coils to form the 5mH value used in the AL-3, same values, same schematic, different parts. I see your pair has the “improved” resin K-401. (Spider senses tingling)
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^^^^ THIS ! ^^^^
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a little late to the party, nice day for yardwork up here Regarding the tweeter, I have one poly, two phenolic and one titanium diaphragm I just hooked up to the meter. It looks like 8.5 is an average reading between the lot. Parts Express has the polyswitches for peanuts, and if you are in the States the Crites and SimplySpeakers titanium diaphragms are free shipping (over $50). SimplySpeakers looks to have a phenolic “style” replacement too but they are not original equipment. I really liked the titanium TWEETER diaphragms, some don’t, so do your research on those. I recently put the phenolics back in the 301s to sell them and did not find anything immediately lacking in their presentation, they just sound better to me with Ti diaphragms. They sounded even better with Dave A’s LMAHL with the DE-120s, the same lens with the DE-10s needed a little attenuation, to my ears. If you are going to replace one, you may as well get a matching pair and have a spare, that you’ll never use, lol. When you get them up to snuff be sure and let us know your impressions. Cheers,
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Covid killed a fair market, too
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Maybe this is the replacement ? Interestingly the crossover on this model is 750 Hz, very close to the Cornwall 4.
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For Sale - La Scala Industrial Splits - No Longer For Sale
geoff. replied to irwinmainway's topic in Garage Sale
those are real, and they’re spectacular -
Driving your speakers with more power than they "need"
geoff. replied to CWelsh's topic in 2-Channel Home Audio
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yikes, are the tweeters still tweeting ?