Idontknow

Thanks for the update. Glad you’re enjoying it. I recall Alan saying the monos were double the power of the single unit. That said though, I’m not a numbers guy and since it sounds great for us both, that’s wonderful. I had an issue with login because the forum doesn’t send emails to update or change password. So, I became idontknow. Thanks for sharing😊👍🏻

That was not directed at you btw and if it came across that way, I apologize. But, I will say that the major issue with these klipsch forums is they fail miserably to help others get constructive feedback which is why I’ve seldom posted questions for assistance because you can hardly get anything constructive. For example whenever you try to ask what the difference is between this speaker vs that speaker you just get blanket statements like the IV without any constructive content as to why or any context. That’s fanboy chatter as far as I’m concerned. If you google who the best drummer is you always get these stupid comments that John Bonham is. I guarantee if you asked these fanboys why he’s a better drummer, they would have no idea specifically why or what he does differently that other drummers couldn’t do. They would fail miserably. If I ask what’s a better speaker, the Cornwall or the Heresy, everyone will say the Cornwall without any regard to the listening room size or position of the listener. In theory one might think the Cornwall is better but it’s unfortunate that so many are so quick to answer without asking questions about the listeners situation first in order to provide a constructive answer. I’ve struggled for literally years to find a pair of mint Forte 1’s without success. Every single pair was either banged up with cup rings on top or had pushed-in drivers. What is it with these cup rings anyway? Was every klipsch owner a party animal? Let’s make sure we add some cup stain rings so we fit in guys. Finally last week I said screw it and ordered a pair of Forte 1’s from Klipsch Restorations for $2750 shipped. Not the II, not the III, not the IV. What?...!!!!! You can get a a pair of Forte’s for $500 online! Yea right! Good luck. Did anyone ever consider that for my listening room a forte 1 fully restored to practically brand new is still less than a Heresy IV? Why a Forte 1? Because despite that huge 15” passive radiator that everyone goes goo-goo gaga over, all the later versions ironically don’t go as low as the Forte one, especially at lower listening levels. The 1 is better than all this overly marketed, over priced new stuff. I couldn’t get any constructive help from these forums, why? Because it’s just this same crap all day long. IV IV IV IV. In a few years it’ll be V V V V V. This here is an example of a constructive and helpful, honest review. https://audiomods.datsunzgarage.us/forte/ My 2 cents.

Open baffles are amazing. My favorite speakers in the world are the Klipsch Heritage series and open baffles. They’re really amazing for jazz. I have many videos of them here.

I've heard the KLF20's numerous time and have a video of their bass effects here for others interested to get an idea. I recently listened to the Cornwall 1,2's using some of the original high quality parts with a vertical midrange and although many are sold on the IV, I still think they represent a great idea on what you could expect. To me, the KLF20's are nice for music, but I'm sure even nicer for home theater stuff because they have a huge soundstage and huge bass. You do not need subs with the KLF20's. Their bass is absurd and you can hear it for yourself in this video with a pair of earbuds to get an adea. The thing with the Cornwall's is that they too have a huge soundstage but their bass is so much more musical in the sense that it's not boomy. Instead, they are tight, quick and fast and if stereo is what you are interested in, I'd definitely prefer the Cornwall's but I absolutely can not stand some of the fanboy posts in these threads where people just flat out post Cornwall IV IV IV IV without context and it continuously happens all the time in these forums. For example, the size of the room is a huge factor and I could listen to Heresy's all day in a small room compared to a Cornwall because IMO, you need to get a bit of distance away from them to take in their full impact. Anyway if it's stereo, Cornwalls all day because I just find the KLF's to be just a bit too boomy and overwhelming in the bass department and they have a sort of boxy resonating ring to them. This is why I prefer the Heresy's over the KLF20's even though the KLF's have more bass and a bigger soundstage. They're just not as musical compared to the smaller Heresy's for jazz or the Cornwall's for that matter.

Hi Max, I’m not sure how anyone would be able to answer that unless they knew more about the listening levels and type of music you intend to play. Also, how big a room you are trying to fill.

Well stated. You can hardly ever get a constructive response with any specifics other than fanboy blanket statements.

First Watt F3 Demo

Components used during our jazz session were the following. Premium tube preamp - Don Sachs Amp - First Watt F3 DAC - Holo Audio Spring 3 Speakers - Lii Audio F-15 in parallel with Lii Audio Silver 8 drivers. Impedance drops to about 4 ohms in this configuration.

I appreciate the response. With all due respect however, some sell their tube gear in favor solid state for numerous reasons. It’s usually related to home theater, power due to the vast majority of inefficient speakers unlike the heritage series, and their theoretical ability to provide fast bass in my opinion. Not all are fast though. For example the Parasound A23 Halo has slow, mushy bass with my Heresy IMO. I personally can’t stand solid state amps overall but there are a few exceptions. The main reason I don’t care for solid state (and this is an absolute fact) is because they do not produce the same spatial separation between instruments like tubes. I always tell others if you want to know what the vast majority of solid state amps sound like, simply take a towel and place it over your speakers and it veils the sound as if it isn’t breathing openly and spatially from a relative perspective. This isn’t always audible to many mainly because of the type of music they are playing. For example if someone is playing fast rock with thrashing like sound, there is just too much going on all at once which hides separation. This also happens with some classical where tons of instruments are all thrashing at once. We have noticed a pattern with music listeners. Also, there’s a myth that tubes are warm. That’s far from true because tubes can sometimes have a warm signature while some sound harsh. I don’t know why so many think tubes always sound warm. I can name several tube units that are harsh. The First Watt amps are absolutely astonishing like no other solid states I’ve heard. Last night we compared the First Watt F3 against my Decware Zen SE84UFO. If others have never heard classic jazz with this little single ended triode gem of an amp through an efficient pair of speakers, they don’t know what they’re missing. People should visit Kevin’s site “glow in the dark audio” when it comes to tubes and amps, he’s a grand master. Using a pair of custom open baffle speakers, we tested the little Zen against the First Watt. We played Boss Tenor/Gene Ammons and other songs. There’s a song you can YouTube called “my romance”. When this type of jazz is played where the sax is played, this is where tube amps truly shine because the sound of the sax is so rich, warm and sweet sounding. Play this on a solid state and it will almost always sound muffled by comparison as if somebody covered the sax horn with a sock. There’s just no air and the instruments are not open to breath. The Zen plays this kind of music like few others. When we played the same song on the First Watt F3, I dropped my jaw in disbelief. It sounds absolutely sweet, open and airy exactly like the finest tube amps. To me, this was incredible to say the least and actually outperformed a couple of very impressive tube amps we compared it too. For example, when an amp doesn’t sound balanced some instruments sound like they are in the background. The First Watt was able to keep all the instruments at the front of the sound stage with a 3 dimensional sound no solid state I’ve ever heard can match. But if listeners are just into rocking out and cranking music up to ridiculous levels, that’s not what these amps are for and this is why I say, people need to put their damn music into perspective. It’s not about that. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

It amazes me no one has mentioned that these particular First Watt amps, particularly the F3 genuinely have the same open, spatial separation achieved from the finest tube amps. In other words, they don't sound like solid state amps. They have a very sweet, rich, musical sound to them. Amazing sound to say the least! My friend has a SIT-3 on the way and I'll have an F6 soon.

Alex, McIntosh makes really nice gear. Can't imagine you'd be disappointed with your choices already. You don't need really refined amps for rocking out IMO. I'm more about smooth and sweet sounding because I like easy listening jazz. For that I use my Decware. For rocking out, I use my Dynaco ST120 and ST70, more power, more punch but not as sweet and refined compared to my little Zen amp. I've been messing with the First Watt F3 amp and that's the first solid state amp that truly sounds like a tube amp even though it's solid state, but for rocking out, refinement isn't worth worrying about. I'm not necessarily saying rocking out is all you're doing but you really should have a couple of different types of amps because one just doesn't do it for all music, if you are doing it right. Good luck.

I have a pair of Alan Eaton's 45's and LOVE them. Right now I'm testing the Sophia 45 tubes with them and so far they're very impressive!

It can be linked to here. You have to click on videos listed at the top of the link so they are organized by date from the newest at the top to the oldest as you scroll down. https://youtube.com/channel/UCcqp9IWuWwlPTAsAzaMahFg

I find that the box resonance of the Heresy IV tends to drown out the midrange compared to the II’s. The II’s just tend to breath more openly and effortlessly the way I prefer with jazz. Jazz just sounds more realistic and true to my ears with the II’s. I can easily achieve tighter, cleaner and faster bottom end bass as demonstrated in my latest YouTube video which can’t be linked here unfortunately due to copyrights but it can be listened to on the channel titled Rush “losing it”. Headsets must be employed once again. Not sure if the full resolution loaded into YouTube or not but it gives an idea. This is with dual REL T5i’s and still costs less than the IV’s.

At first I was liking the JBL’s top end and bass, but I prefer the midrange in the Cornwall which is a better balance for me. It just seems more open. I prefer the Cornwall.

I've always looked at audio videos from a "relative" perspective and I think videos do offer clues to the listeners. Obviously they're videos so you can't hear all aspects of the music and I think most listeners understand that. I agree though that some of these recordings people put on can sound good with just about anything and it should really be more about the music you actually enjoy listening to even if that means those recordings are not so great. Yesterday I was playing Rush Signals album and the CD sounds so compressed after listening to great recordings. The only way to trick myself is to turn it up louder and add some treble. I'm trying to find out if it can be had on LP or some better source so it's less compressed. It's just that when recordings are made well, it tends to engage the listener more IMO regardless of the genre of music, but I get what you guys mean from the other perspective.

I can’t completely speak for the Cornwall’s because I’ve not actually heard them side by side just yet but I have with the Heresy’s and they too, like the newer Cornwall’s have that same newer upper smoothness that all the latest Heritage series have but I didn’t find it at all necessarily to sound better like you guys claim in fact I still prefer the older models because they unquestionably sounded more effortless and holographic to my ears and I think the videos clearly illustrates that even as a video! You guys can give a listen here with both my videos side by side if you use a pair of headsets. You can detect just a bit more bass in the IV, relative to the II but I still prefer the overall sound of the older model in my room and you can hear the differences clearly with headsets. Btw we later learned that the volume actually was in fact adjusted slightly higher so when you listen to the sound signature of the IV you need to turn the volume down just a bit. The II are in fact more efficient than the IV by a few dB regardless of the stats Klipsch claims.

Okay Shakey, I would agree if it were the La Scala, so maybe not the entire heritage line but it still would be nice to see more logical and constructive reviews and you’re an audio veteran! You yourself obviously have a ton of experience to bring to the table.

It's probably because most of the those who already own the original or earlier generation Cornwalls like them just the way the are. Heck, if you look inside most of those older Klipsch Heritage speakers vs new, the interior drivers on the original gear were much more beautifully constructed and solid by comparison to today. Today, companies focus more and more on how to build things as cheap as they can get away with. Very few ever talk about that. I too am amazed, just like you at how little if any information is out there that compare the older Cornwall's to the newer ones. I'm also dubious about the size and shape of these larger midrange horns on the newer Cornwall IV's because IMO, they seem to have lost their coherency with voices, trumpets and horns with jazz. Heck, if I could find some Forte 1's in mint condition, I'd take them over any of the newer Forte models but you can't find any that haven't been beat to crap. I too have not compared the old and new Cornwall's side by side yet but I'd certainly be reluctant to believe most of the new reviews because there's just so much marketing hype out there many fall for. They buy into the hype that newer means better and it's simply often not true. Nowadays most of these modern YouTubers candy coat their reviews with the exception of just a few. All this nonsense about "shouty" is for the birds as far as I'm concerned. It's just an old, abused and overused cliche that's more often been parroted than properly experienced over and over. Even so, those kind of sound signatures can easily be balanced by mating them with the right stereo components. It amazes me that so little is stated about matching the proper components to offset any of these supposed inadequacies. Since when the heck does live jazz music or rock sound smooth and sweet? When you hear a live trumpet, it hits you. When you hear a live violin, it hits you. If Klipsch are shouty then that would imply PWK didn't design good speakers. PWK was a genius in my book who built an empire out of nearly nothing. His reputation speaks volumes. It amazes me how much money people waste on so much marketing and overpriced merchandise. My $500 Dynakit just trounced a $1500 Parasound that modern reviewers think is the one to have. Then there's the "for the money" statements in these reviews. It amazes me how gullible people are to believe that just because something costs more, that must mean it's better. There are so many instances in hifi where more expensive doesn't sound better. I've heard a good number of expensive gear that didn't sound remotely as good as their price tags suggested. It's like the Primaluna Evo 400 I recently reviewed. If anything, IMO this is certainly a shouty integrated amp with the Heritage series even after break in, yet everybody goes nuts over it because Kevin Deal does very good videos. I think he's an amazing guy, don't get me wrong. I like Kevin's reviews overall because he really does speak from the heart and that's more than I can say for most of these reviewers out there on YouTube. I heard the Forte III's a couple of years ago with the Primaluna at Upscale Audio next to a pair of Tanoy XT8's and they customer who was comparing them said..... I'll take the Tannoy's and I completely agreed. The Forte III's sounded quite harsh and brittle but once again, they were coupled to a Primaluna Evo again in a fantastic listening room. This is why component matching is so important. Most of the speakers those guys over there listening to with those EVO's amps are not Klipsch heritage speakers so of course it's good match with some speakers. I've listened and compared a lot of stuff now. The biggest blunder in these forums are the newer is better mentality Klipsch fanboys who continually fail to make constructive comparisons and assessments. Look at the new Heresy IV's. The earlier Heresy's do not have the box resonance that the new Heresy IV's have yet nobody talks about that being one of the benefits of the older model. Instead they just make blanket claims that the newer IV's are better. Better in what way specifically? You want soft rolled off sound? Purchase a Yamaha S501 integrated amp. It's so muffled and rolled off you'll more likely turn its treble knobs to full just to get some of that supposed shouting back on the earlier heritage models. It's more about matching components. If I could find someone who had an original pair of decorator Cornwalls in proper condition, I'd ****** them in a heartbeat but it's next to impossible to find anyone in SoCal. I'd have no issue having the earlier models that were more the way PWK designed the heritage lines to be. To me, it's a special part of his own heritage and legacy.

Good luck. Near impossible. Everyone's on the newer bandwagon.

The Evo 400 is a nice integrated amp. It’s a bit on the bright side on its own when coupled to the Heresy’s. A warmer preamp enhances the sound IMO. I have a longer video review of the 400 but haven’t posted it just yet.

Wow! Absolutely beautiful and I love the old school decorator design with wood faces. Enjoy those beauties!

Get the REL T5i. It’s absolutely amazing! I have two but one is excellent still and currently I’m using just one with my Heresy II and the other on another setup. It’s super fast and connects perfectly to tube amps without issues like many other subs. I have compared it to others like the T7i and T9i and I still like the T5i better than either regardless of price or design.

I don’t get your issue. They look nice in that room. Skinny monitors are a modern hifi trend and they’ll never replicate the live sound of those classic Forte’s IMO. I would never compromise sound based on this photo. That room looks perfect.

I’d never put any receiver for music with a Heresy. Ruins the sound. For movies if that’s your thing.