crunk Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I've recently borrowed a friend's pair of Heresey 1s to see if I liked them. The horns sound great, but the woofer seems to be lacking. I know that bass on Heresys is not supposed to be extremely strong, but in this case I wonder if something might be wrong since the woofer seems to put out about the same as a very small satellite speaker. I hooked them up alongside some old Advent 4002s (a cheaper speaker with only a 10" woofer). The Advent is far more powerful sounding and has far better bass. I tried floor placement on the Heresys as well as up on short stands to no avail. I was even running them with the loudness switch on but I couldn't get any power out of the woofer. It's working, but is just so deficient compared to the horns. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejohn Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Well I just got a pair of Model H's and after doing some research & reading all about them being bass-light compared to the horn loaded Klipsch models, I was expecting no bottom end. Actually I was suprised to hear they how good they sounded. A horn-hoaded or even ported 15 like my Tannoy DMT's or JBL's do have more bass but are more than double the size. I dont think I would ask for more from a 12 in a small sealed box. They certainly have better bottom-end than the horrible boomy plastic-sounding bottom from many modern mini bookshelf speakers. It probably depends on musical taste as well. I've been listening to them with "analog" music - guitar, bass, drums, piano, hammond, brass.... They may struggle with more electronic synthesized bass type music - haven't tried yet. Also haven't tried them for home theatre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 The Heresy, like the LaScala, belongs to the class of speakers I call 'NRB' (no real bass). Their was a version of the Heresy that had some bass (it was called the Forte); and of course it was vented, and bigger too. A 2 cu ft 2nd order sealed box with an F3 of 30hz can only be 0.18% efficient (84.55dB). A 2 cu ft 4th order vented box with an F3 of 30hz can only be 0.36% efficient (87.56dB). A 2 cu ft 6th order vented box with an F3 of 30hz can only be 0.90% efficient (91.54dB). A few years back I presented a 6th order modification for the Heresy (required new woofers), but even though it was more efficient, and went about as low as the Cornwall, there was no interest in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Welcome Crunk to the Forum . One of the primary causes of poor bass in a Heresy-I is that the design was a sealed cabinet. Over time the cabinet becomes "unsealed", as in air leaks from around the rear panel, at the edges of the braces, and around the edge of the motor board. Using a latex caulk on the seams where the motor board is against the braces, sealing the gaps between the braces, and using a strip of speaker gasket material in the rear panel will generally make audible improvements. There can be other issue can be that the woofer may be "worn out". If the cone material has deteriorated over time, it loses it's rigidity. The woofers can be replaced from Klipsch Parts 800-274-5547. The replacement is the K-24, although the better choice is the K-28 which is currently the Heresy-III woofer. Consider the H-I in the same manner as a "classic" car you want. Restoring or at least bringing it back to the same level of performance requires some "blueprinting". In this analogy, sealing the cabinets, replacing capacitors on the crossovers, and even replacing the woofer will change the sound dramatically.... for the better. Hope that is of some assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Even when working properly the Heresy won't have autosound-level low bass output. It will, however, deliver very low-distortion bass output. Many small loudspeakers generate high levels of harmonic distortion, which increases apparent bass output. If increased low bass output is desired, a subwoofer or two will correct that and can be added as budget allows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 If the provenance isn't completely known, someone may have sub'd a non-Klipsch woofer at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I tried floor placement on the Heresys as well as up on short stands to no avail... Did you place the Heresies on the floor with their backs against a wall? Even better to put them in or very near a corner...there is an article by PWK on corner placement of [direct radiator] speakers that points out this effect well. This will smooth out the lf response and extend it deeper. ...I was even running them with the loudness switch on but I couldn't get any power out of the woofer. It's working, but is just so deficient compared to the horns. Any ideas? After refreshing the caps (ref: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-534 ) and resealing the boxes, I'd try placing them in a corner on the floor, no risers. Getting new lf drivers seems to me to be a little extreme if they look to be in reasonable shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Have you verified that all the drivers in each speaker are working, especially the woofers? It's possible that some connections may have come loose over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunk Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 Thanks for all the great responses! The woofers do appear to be the originals and appear to be in good shape (the suspension is very tight - hence I guess the low amounts of bass by design). It's not just the low bass I'm concerned with, but the overall woofer output. The horns are very much an in-your-face sound while the woofer output (all of it) sounds like it's two rooms away. My friend took the speakers back, but I'll suggest resealing the cabinets. There have also been a few recommendations to recap the crossovers. Do they have a profound impact on bass output or is their failure primarily evident in the highs and mids? I've tried them hooked up along with my sub, but my sub is a big bruiser and is primarily good at adding the lowest octave even when I set the crossover quite high. The Heresys seem to want something to bolster the whole woofer range in order to keep up with the horns. In terms of placement, I've tried the speakers on the floor, but they were 12-18 inches away from the wall. I'll try pushing them back up against the wall and nearer to the corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Did you hook up everything with proper polarity? Just to make sure, try swapping the + and - only at the terminal of ONE of the speakers. If you get more base, then there is probably something wired backwards somewhere (could even be inside the speaker). You might also try this with your known working speakers so that you know the difference it can make. It will also be mor dramatic the closer the speakers are to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Good one Doc, funny how we can all overlook some of the simpliest, most obvious suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Not to be a Weisenheimer (OK, just a little) but wouldn't the most obvious reason be that these speakers are only flat to about 63 Hz or so? That's really not that low compared to many speakers. Heck, my center channel is flat to 45 Hz........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Their was a version of the Heresy that had some bass (it was called the Forte); and of course it was vented, and bigger too. Is a passive woofer considered a vented enclosure? [:^)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockets Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I'm probably going to get killed for suggesting this... If your Heresey has a removable back, and you have a few extra dollars to play with, this would be a simple, cheap way to do a qucik A/B of your exixting. Cut a fresh piece of plywood to replace the original back, port it and change the existing woofer with a JBL 123a or JBL 2213h. Fs 25hz http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Thiele%20Small%20Parameters/Theile%20Parameters.pdf Try it out, and compare. If you don't like it, just put the original parts back in. No harm, no foul, and you can always resell the JBL's so you're only out the cost of the plywood, weather stripping and shipping...maybe $50 total. (You can buy 2' by 2' plywood precuts at Lowes for just a few dollars.) You should be able to cut the wood to fit using the original as a template and swap the woofer in less than an hour, so there's no real time loss there. Of course you may also like what you hear... Just make sure you re-weather strip for a proper seal. Obviously, the best way to do this before spending a dime would be to model the above, if you have the software to do so. However, if you're a hack like me, you'll end up doing it the hard way.[] I don't know how much bass you are looking for, but I'm pretty confident you will hear an improved, deeper output with the ported box and JBL's. Just don't expect too much though, as it's not going to compare with a 15" woofer in a larger box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Their was a version of the Heresy that had some bass (it was called the Forte); and of course it was vented, and bigger too. Is a passive woofer considered a vented enclosure? yes, think of it as a more controlled column of air than an open port. The PR also prevents port 'chuffing'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I not sure what you got running those Herseys but with my HK430 there is NO lack of bass i dont think...could also be loose connections on crossover . If your close to someone who has some Herseys might be worth going over there to hear them.Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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