what to look for in a turntable

[The Dude]

Now I have a feeling a lot of this is going to come down to owners preference. But what are some things maybe one turntable than the other can offer such as upgradeable tone arms, stylus, cartridges, etc... Also is belt drive better than direct drive or vise verse, what is with what seems to be counterweights on the end of the town arm. The reason I ask is that I have 4 turntables to choose from technics sl-27bd, marantz 6100 which is belt driven, Pioneer PL-4 which is direct driven, and last a JVC L-A11 direct drive which also is direct drive. Now the marantz is neat looking with the wood base, but all in all they all have some cosmetic issues which doesn't effect me that much just wanted to know if anyone has owned any of these models or even brands and maybe some things I should look at.

thanks for inputs

nick

[russ69]

Belt drive, low rumble number, good tone arm. A good table cost a few bucks, you don't want to cut corners on a TT or cartridge.

Thanx, Russ

[LarryC]

you don't want to cut corners on a TT or cartridge.

Or actually the tone arm either, if you can help it (good TA's are expensive and you usually don't have a choice in used). Can you listen to any of the candidates? There's quite a difference between how 'tables sound, and of course which cart and TA it has will add to the puzzle.

I tend to agree with belt drive, but do not think any rumble figure you can get (you often can't) will be key. Anyway, it's the combo that counts. Unfortunately, I can't help you with your choices.

[The Dude]

this all gives me a good start, are most tone arms and cartridges universal if so any that you recommend.

Can you listen to any of the candidates?

sort of that's one reason I asked if the cartridges are universal, I've seen that there are two styles of cartridges. But back to that question I have all 4 in my hands. So in a way yes I can but don't really want to put a lot of money to all of them just the one I want to keep. You guys are right cartridge can get pricey. So I will have to look around.

thanks for the input from all

Nick

[The Dude]

this all gives me a good start, are most tone arms and cartridges universal if so any that you recommend.

Can you listen to any of the candidates?

sort of that's one reason I asked if the cartridges are universal, I've seen that there are two styles of cartridges. But back to that question I have all 4 in my hands. So in a way yes I can but don't really want to put a lot of money to all of them just the one I want to keep. You guys are right cartridge can get pricey. So I will have to look around.

thanks for the input from all

Nick

[jamesV]

are most tone arms and cartridges universal

From my experience, which is very limited, they are not. Tone arms are limited to certain tables and carts are limited to tone arm weight requirement. If you have tone arm "X" it should have a specific weight range that works best. Then you have to decide on which cart is in that range and price range to choose from.

But back to that question I have all 4 in my hands.

Are they not in plug and play mode at the moment? If any are you should hook it up to your system to see how it sounds.

I got my first TT about a year ago, was lucky enough to get it from here. It's a Thorens 160 and have since but more money into it with accessories then I paid for it, but that is the fun part....

Good luck...

James

[scott0527]

I'm a big fan of belt drive tables over direct drives. And suspended (the platter and tonearm are suspended from the platen usually by some form of springs) turntables over non-suspended. I find belt drives easier to tweak and work on than direct drives. Suspeded tables sound more engagaing to me. By that I mean, if I start an album, no matter what other task I'm trying to do, I usually stop, sit and listen until the album is over. Sometimes when I cue up a non-suspened table, it will sound really good, but I find myself reading or working and before I know it the album is over and I missed it.

So given that, of the tables you have, I have had the Marantz 6100. It was ok, but I would easily prefer an AR XA or Thorens 160 over it any day in regards to performance. I don't think the S shpaed tonearm on the Marantz is very good. Something about straight tonearms seem to perform better on these types of tables. Again, it is ok, but I wouldn't spend much time or money with it. Don't know anything about your other 3 tables.

[Dennie]

Hey Duder, What is your budget?

Dennie

[The Dude]

So given that, of the tables you have, I have had the Marantz 6100. It was ok, but I would easily prefer an AR XA or Thorens 160 over it any day in regards to performance. I don't think the S shpaed tonearm on the Marantz is very good. Something about straight tonearms seem to perform better on these types of tables. Again, it is ok, but I wouldn't spend much time or money with it. Don't know anything about your other 3 tables.

someday I whish to upgrade to one of those but I came across these for what I believe was a good price, and It would give me a chance to check a couple different brands, giving that the other two are direct driven I probably wont put to much into them. Since my technics is all ready useable, If I can get a descent cart, plus belt for the marantz I will probably compare the two of them one plus with the marantz it all ready has a dust cover which is a plus over my technics. So if anyone wants to buy the pioneer or jvc let me know they are for sale just name your price, plus the cost of shipping let me know.

thanks

nick

[artto]

There are “record players” and there are turntables ~ often
referred to as “transcription turntables”.

Record players usually have a “built-in” tonearm. Transcription
turntables generally can use the tonearm (pickup arm) of your choice, although
there are some very good ones that have integrated arms like the Thorens TD
160/165 (although you could make changes if you really wanted to).

Unless you’re a DJ at a radio station where you need fast
startup and braking you can forget direct drive. It’s a scam. The specs for
rumble are always weighted because they don’t want you to see how bad the low
frequency rumble is.

The choice of phono pickup and tonearm combination is far
more important than the turntable, and the setup/maintenance/cleanliness of the
arm/pickup is more critical than the aforementioned.

The models you mention are in the “record player” category
as the tonearm is fully integrated and only minimal adjustments can be made by
the user, and they also all have an auto-return type tone arm.

[seti]

I lucked into a Garrard 301 transcription table for almost nothing. It is temporarily setup in a 1950's sprung console. There is no rumble or noise and very quiet even with a vintage transcription tonearm. Basically I found a major project. Sometimes it is what you can find around you for a decent price. Keep a look out in your local classified ads. You never know what you'll find especially if you close to a big city. If you find something local just look it up on the net to see if it is any good. Opinions vary but at least you should get a good idea as to value.

[fwphoto]

. . . I would easily prefer an AR XA or Thorens 160 over it any day in regards to performance.

Me too! ;-)

Thanks again,

Frank

[blindman]

Arrto's response was very eloquent and I think it spoke volumes.

My immediate reaction to this posting was, "none of these 'record players' are particularly good choices".

Unfortunately that equates to: you may need to keep looking...and like alot of things in life...you get what you pay for...in other words a cheap turntable may be just that...a cheap turntable.

Vinyl records are somewhat fragile. That is why mint records that have never been played command such outrageous prices. From the first time you play a record...if you are not using a turntable...which has been set-up properly (which demands close attention and and attention to details)...you stand a chance of degrading the playback ability of the vinyl record...to the point of actually damaging/ruining the record severely by playing it on an inadequate system.

Do not take this lightly. If you invest in high quality records...you will want to protect that investment by using the best turntable, tone arm and cartridge that you can afford. All three items (turntable, tone arm, and cartridge) compose a system. Each component is critically important to not only the first playing of the record, but to future enjoyment and repeat playings.

[Islander]

The drive system is not as important as the sound. Some very high end turntables are direct drive. Years ago, I had a belt drive turntable (a BIC, entry-level at best) and found the belt drive to be a nuisance. With direct drive, on a decent-quality turntable at least, you get solid speed control and simple, reliable, operation.

Are you able to listen to all four of those turntables? Which sounds best to you?

[nu2toobs]

Some very high end turntables are direct drive.

Can you name those please?

[Islander]

Islander:

Some very high end turntables are direct drive.

nu2toobs: Can you name those please?

Rockport Sirius III, Clearaudio Statement, Teres Certus, Grand Prix Audio Monaco, just off the top of my head. Here's a Stereophile review of the Monaco: http://www.stereophile.com/turntables/1107gp/

[LarryC]

I don't have a comparable Nu2 repertoire of good belt-drive tables, because I have been so happy with my belt-drive Basis. Garymd might chime in here and would probably say the same thing (his setup is almost identical to mine, and everyone raves about his). FYI, he has a Basis 2001, while I have the earlier Basis Ovation model. You can sometimes find good Basis combos on Audiogon, but not cheap although not outrageous if well-priced.

However, both the tonearm and cartridge are about as critical to the sound and performance as the table itself, which is why I made the TA point earlier.I suspect the following are out of your immediate price range -- both our tonearms are the Basis Vector, and we both have a Transfiguration brand cartridge -- mine is the "Orpheus" and his is one of the Tempers.

Basis was often sold with the Rega tonearm, which is an OK combination (the Vector is noticeably better). The Transfigs are moving coil (MC), which is totally another kettle of fish that I won't go into here.

FYI, my $0.02.

[nu2toobs]

Thanks Islander, those look like great turntables. I thought the Statement was belt.

Islander:

Some very high end turntables are direct drive.

nu2toobs: Can you name those please?

Rockport Sirius III, Clearaudio Statement, Teres Certus, Grand Prix Audio Monaco, just off the top of my head. Here's a Stereophile review of the Monaco: http://www.stereophile.com/turntables/1107gp/

[nu2toobs]

I agree with you Larry, after I found the Avid/koetsu combo it's hard to look any further. Although I'm curious about the vintage idler sound.

I don't have a comparable Nu2 repertoire of good belt-drive tables, because I have been so happy with my belt-drive Basis. Garymd might chime in here and would probably say the same thing (his setup is almost identical to mine, and everyone raves about his). FYI, he has a Basis 2001, while I have the earlier Basis Ovation model. You can sometimes find good Basis combos on Audiogon, but not cheap although not outrageous if well-priced.

However, both the tonearm and cartridge are about as critical to the sound and performance as the table itself, which is why I made the TA point earlier.I suspect the following are out of your immediate price range -- both our tonearms are the Basis Vector, and we both have a Transfiguration brand cartridge -- mine is the "Orpheus" and his is one of the Tempers.

Basis was often sold with the Rega tonearm, which is an OK combination (the Vector is noticeably better). The Transfigs are moving coil (MC), which is totally another kettle of fish that I won't go into here.

FYI, my $0.02.

[Islander]

nu2toobs, the Clearaudio Statement is "magnetic drive", which may sort of be indirect drive, but it's definitely not belt drive. Some reviews mention that it's based on the drive system of the Mars rovers, but that may just be advertising puffery.