What size sub/amp with K-horns

[jcmusic]

What size sub and which amp are you guys using with k-horns? What settings are you using? How effective is it?

Jay

[artto]

In general you're going to have a rough time properly mating a sub with Khorns. Some folks have had success with SVS. BagEnd makes an interesting unit that's flat to 8Hz if you want it to go there. It's low profile with 2x18's. I'm thinking of using one of these under the Belle center speaker. It would raise the Belle to the same height as the Khorns and take up hardly any more floor space ~ almost like the Belle on a raised platform.

[psg]

I don't listen to movies at reference levels, so the sub has no trouble keeping up with the Klipschorns for LFE. The speakers I would use don't affect that outcome. I rarely use the sub for music; the Klipschorns have decent bass.

I am tempted by a DIY sub based on a 15-inch driver and and an horn cabinet tuned to 15 Hz. That type of sub might work well with Klipschorns for music using a 40 Hz crossover.

[twistedcrankcammer]

What size sub and which amp are you guys using with k-horns? What settings are you using? How effective is it?

Jay

Jay,

Do you want your sub for reference level music, or home theatre?

Big difference in requirenments.

Roger

[Oblio]

For music I have 80 wpc with my Klipschorns, it will hurt you.

No subs yet.

[jcmusic]

Hi Roger 2 channel music only in my system!!! HT is in the other room!!!

Jay

[twistedcrankcammer]

Hi Roger 2 channel music only in my system!!! HT is in the other room!!!

Jay

Jay,

I have two Velodyne HGS 18IIs, and while great subs, I am totally blown away by Kevin Harmons Klipsch KPT-684 for music with his Jublees, and he is only powering it with a crown XTi [:|]

I truely impressed to the point that I eventually want to get one myself, and Klipsch still sells them. They are a double 18 woofer with the K-47 EP-2 drivers. If one sub can keep up with those Jubilees, it will definately hang with your K-Horns dude.

Roger

[DTLongo]

My impression is that with most rock/pop/country popular music you don't need a sub with Klipschorns. Assuming good amplification they sing fine down to 45hz or 40hz or so, about as far down as such music reaches. And gawd knows you can crank them LOUD if that's your thing, and they still sound unstrained and loafing. But for symphonic music especially organ, bass drum and other deep stuff, they sound thin. A subwoofer is the fix even though such may seem like coals-to-Newcastle with mighty Klipschorns. In my case I've emplyed a Velodyne S1500R sub, and a home modified JBL-380 (see photo). The top-quality Velo dug deep but sounded sterile. I now use it in my home theater room in another part of the house. The big old ported JBL box modified with a dual voice coil 15" $150.00 Memphis car speaker run off my amp's subwoofer output through a separate old amp sounds more "musical." Cellos and double basses sound resonantly like the real thing. The woof also digs impressively below 30hz for stuff demanding such.

I guess the bottom line is that even the Mighty Klipschorn can benefit from a decent subwoofer on some material. It works for me.

[psg]

I don't tend to use a sub for music, and don't miss it much even for drums: With 120 Watts per channel, I hit 112 dB in the room (18x20') on the first track of 'Circle of drums' and the kick drum actually images like the drum was there. It could even be that the needle on my Radio Shack neddle isn't fast enough to go higher and that the meter underreads at low frequencies. Having said that, I am considering a step up to a pro amp with 200 WPC or more. [Y]

[gnatnoop]

My impression is that with most rock/pop/country popular music you don't need a sub with Klipschorns. Assuming good amplification they sing fine down to 45hz or 40hz or so, about as far down as such music reaches. And gawd knows you can crank them LOUD if that's your thing, and they still sound unstrained and loafing. But for symphonic music especially organ, bass drum and other deep stuff, they sound thin. A subwoofer is the fix even though such may seem like coals-to-Newcastle with mighty Klipschorns. In my case I've emplyed a Velodyne S1500R sub, and a home modified JBL-380 (see photo). The top-quality Velo dug deep but sounded sterile. I now use it in my home theater room in another part of the house. The big old ported JBL box modified with a dual voice coil 15" $150.00 Memphis car speaker run off my amp's subwoofer output through a separate old amp sounds more "musical." Cellos and double basses sound resonantly like the real thing. The woof also digs impressively below 30hz for stuff demanding such.

I guess the bottom line is that even the Mighty Klipschorn can benefit from a decent subwoofer on some material. It works for me.

In the last few weeks, i've fired my tube integrated, gone to Outlaw Audio's RR2150. This stereo receiver has a sub out and internal low pass selectable at either 60, 80, 100hz or bypass (so you have the option of using your sub's crossovers).

I didn't add a sub until this weekend, stole the Def Tech PF 15 from the home theater system. I feel like a heratic but this is much, much, much, better!!

The sub doesn't work very hard normally, but it does contribute. I don't consider the PF 15 to be very high end, adequate at best. It will need to be upgraded to really "fit" with the khorns if you will. Probably will look at a 10" or 12" sub in the future.

[seti]

I tried using a sub with Belles then Khorns. In the long run I decided it was just wasn't necessary unless I was watching movings and wanted that bowl shaking bass. The bass of a klipsch bass horn is so fast clean and acurate that I decided to just enjoy it as is. Every know and then I do hook it up and give it a spin. It is fun shaking the house to pieces

[Chris A]

I'd recommend one or two of these: http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/tapped_horn.asp?MODEL=TH%20SPUD I'd put them upright in a front corner(s), just to the outside of the Khorn with the mouth in the corner facing inward. They will provide a false corner for the Khorn bass bin, and move the Khorns in 11" towards the center which (I believe) will improve imaging. One of these units will be sufficient for 2-channel operation.

These are amazing. "Effective" just doesn't describe it. You'll need about 10dB gain over your Khorn power amp input level. I also recommend something like a Crown XTi-1000 to drive them, either "biamping" each sub, one channel for each driver (i.e., using one Crown XTi per sub) or running the drivers in series, one sub/channel as a nominal 8 Ohm load.

Chris

[Colin]

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0405/acititan.htm

[Coytee]

Every know and then I do hook it up and give it a spin. It is fun shaking the house to pieces

Yes, I think we've seen some of the fruits of your fun before, no??

[Y]

[JJkizak]

I use an RSW-12 just fine. It flattens out the low end from 20 to 38hz and I mean flat. And it really works.

JJK

[twistedcrankcammer]

I don't usually do this, but I am going to blow my own horn here and state some facts and some of my oppinions.

Facts; I think my love of Klipsch is deeper then most but a handful of guys on here as evidenced by not only the offerings below K-Horn that I have owned, and do own, but that I had owned K-Horns for years, own 9 TSCM Bass Bins with 5 high frequency sections, own KP-600s, and almost have a complete set of MCM-1900s as well now.

I feel very lucky indeed to have auditioned MCM-1900s prior at least 10 hours worth, hours of KP-600 listening, easily 40 hours of Jubilee listening, and obviously thousands of hours of K-Horn and TSCM listening.

I own two Velodyne HGS-18IIs and they play down to 15 Hz. They used to be the flagship with an MSRP of $3,000 each, and are still only bested by the DD-18 and the DD-18/12 in the Velodyne line-up.

Before I bought my second Velodyne HGS-18II, I auditioned the Klipsch RSW-15 side by side. The Velodyne goes considerably lower and plays considerably louder as evidenced by readings I took myself with my SPL meter.

I have 200 watts per channel of Nakamichi power times 8 channels that is far cleaner then a Pro Amp.

Opinions;

We as Klipsch lovers, love tight Bass, not always necisarily strong low Bass, but definately tight, non boomy Bass.

Deep, low, loud sounds do NOT have to be boomy!!

SVS, while not nearly as boomy as MOST subs, is still not as tight as I have experienced with my Velodynes, but is certainly a capable SPL producer.

While we as Klipsch Lovers, love tight Bass, I cannot see how any Klipsch lover who has experienced Jubilees could say that the K-Horn has all the Bass one will ever need for Music even if it is Rock, Jazz, etc. that is the prefered reference material.

Having said all of the above, even the Jubilee and the MCM-1900 can benifit from more Bass, and preferably more tight Bass, so it is obvious to me that the K-Horn that has less then either of these two speaker sets can use more tight lower bass for music.

Having said that, the absolute best musical Bass I have experienced is the Klipsch KPT-684 with the Jubilee. Kevin Harmon talked with Roy and reconfiggured his Crown XTi and changed out receivers, and reconfigured several times before getting it correct. After lots of reconfiguration, and I mean lot's (and I was there for most all of this) Kevin got it right. Previously the excursion of the 18's in the 684s were moving alot more, but the Bass was not as loud, nor nearly as great sounding.

The KPT-684 is as good as anything I have ever heard for musical Bass. One KPT-684 is enough for a pair of Jubilees, two would be needed for a pair of MCM-1900s, so one would be fine with K-Horns.

There are alot more offerings available then when my Velodynes were new, for alot less money. There are alot of choices for Movie subs, but I s tand by my statement that if you want a pure music Sub, that you can't do better then the Klipsch KPT-684.

Roger

[psg]

I'd recommend one or two of these: http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/tapped_horn.asp?MODEL=TH%20SPUD

The web page does not mention a price...

How much?

I like the idea of a horn-loaded sub to match Klipschorns.

[jcmusic]

I don't usually do this, but I am going to blow my own horn here and state some facts and some of my oppinions.

Facts; I think my love of Klipsch is deeper then most but a handful of guys on here as evidenced by not only the offerings below K-Horn that I have owned, and do own, but that I had owned K-Horns for years, own 9 TSCM Bass Bins with 5 high frequency sections, own KP-600s, and almost have a complete set of MCM-1900s as well now.

I feel very lucky indeed to have auditioned MCM-1900s prior at least 10 hours worth, hours of KP-600 listening, easily 40 hours of Jubilee listening, and obviously thousands of hours of K-Horn and TSCM listening.

I own two Velodyne HGS-18IIs and they play down to 15 Hz. They used to be the flagship with an MSRP of $3,000 each, and are still only bested by the DD-18 and the DD-18/12 in the Velodyne line-up.

Before I bought my second Velodyne HGS-18II, I auditioned the Klipsch RSW-15 side by side. The Velodyne goes considerably lower and plays considerably louder as evidenced by readings I took myself with my SPL meter.

I have 200 watts per channel of Nakamichi power times 8 channels that is far cleaner then a Pro Amp.

Opinions;

We as Klipsch lovers, love tight Bass, not always necisarily strong low Bass, but definately tight, non boomy Bass.

Deep, low, loud sounds do NOT have to be boomy!!

SVS, while not nearly as boomy as MOST subs, is still not as tight as I have experienced with my Velodynes, but is certainly a capable SPL producer.

While we as Klipsch Lovers, love tight Bass, I cannot see how any Klipsch lover who has experienced Jubilees could say that the K-Horn has all the Bass one will ever need for Music even if it is Rock, Jazz, etc. that is the prefered reference material.

Having said all of the above, even the Jubilee and the MCM-1900 can benifit from more Bass, and preferably more tight Bass, so it is obvious to me that the K-Horn that has less then either of these two speaker sets can use more tight lower bass for music.

Having said that, the absolute best musical Bass I have experienced is the Klipsch KPT-684 with the Jubilee. Kevin Harmon talked with Roy and reconfiggured his Crown XTi and changed out receivers, and reconfigured several times before getting it correct. I know they played the KPT-684 at Jube Fest last year, but I was not there. After lots of reconfiguration, and I mean lot's (and I was there for most all of this) Kevin got it right. Previously the excursion of the 18's in the 684s were moving alot more, but the Bass was not as loud, nor nearly as great sounding.

The KPT-684 is as good as anything I have ever heard for musical Bass. One KPT-684 is enough for a pair of Jubilees, two would be needed for a pair of MCM-1900s, so one would be fine with K-Horns.

There are alot more offerings available then when my Velodynes were new, for alot less money. There are alot of choices for Movie subs, but I s tand by my statement that if you want a pure music Sub, that you can't do better then the Klipsch KPT-684.

Roger

Roger,

Where can I get a look at the info on the 684? How much is the cost?

Jay

[twistedcrankcammer]

Jay,

The KPT-684 is on the Klipsch site, under the Pro section. I think the cost is about $1600 new, but you need a seperate amp.

Roger

[Chris A]

I'd recommend one or two of these: http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/tapped_horn.asp?MODEL=TH%20SPUD

The web page does not mention a price...How much?

I like the idea of a horn-loaded sub to match Klipschorns.

As I recall, it's $2250. You can also "build your own"...since the plans hit the web. But I recommend buying one if you can. Tom Danley is a very nice guy and he does good work--and that counts for something...

Chris