OT: Wet Basements

[ace168516]

Ok, so my basement has been wet for decades it seems. Prior owners have had water, had de-watering system installed. I bought the house, ripped it out, patched the holes on the inside with hydraulic cement. Still water. I excavate the entire east wall of my house. Large crack, chisel out crack on mortar joint, patch joint with hydraulic cement. Test footing drains...they work. Put waterproofing epoxy on wall. Put those giant tar/plastic sheets all the way on wall, down the the footing. Increase gravel in footing drain to above the basement floor level, so water drains faster. Still water. Where am I going wrong here...I know my grade is not great, but the outside of the wall is seems to me like it just can't happen...water can not go through plastic...if it did, the wall is covered in epoxy...if it goes through that, the wall has been patched. See my little diagram...any advise...my only thought is water is somehow coming down the chimney wall, finding a way into the top of the concrete blocks, then seeping down through the blocks onto the floor.

[ace168516]

and in action!

[flannj]

Could it be seeping from under and then around the edges the slab rather than through or down the wall?

[ace168516]

I don't think it can go through the wall...water takes the easiest path and going through plastic is not an easy path...possibly hydrostatic pressure from underneath or getting into the top of the blocks somehow...at my wits end though.

[greg928gts]

Water is often under pressure below the slab, and it will find its way up and through any cracks it can.

You said the drains were working. I assume you've checked this to make sure water runs out the end of the pipe exposed above grade? Is the leak you are showing in the picture on the same side that you've excavated out?

Could water be getting behind the plastic?

Greg

[SWL]

Does the water always enter the basement in the same spot or are there multiple locations that water is getting in?

[ace168516]

Just the one spot...I don't think the water can get behind the plastic
as there was a primer that went on the wall and the plastic has like a
1/8" tar backing...as soon as the stuff hit the wall it would tear
before moving, so I don't think it can get behind. The water is on the
side I excavated...I cut a section of the footing drain and ran a hose
for about 30 minutes....no back up, ended up in the sump pit, where it
then drains out to the road. Any decent amount of rain produces a wet
spot. 1 inch or rain leaks a spot about the size of my hand...3.5
inches of rain yields that picture...it takes several hours for it to
come in.

[phatchef]

We live in Toledo Ohio and had a product called (inner channel) installed. They etch about a 4" path around the floor and glue a pannel that guides the water to the sumppump. 8 years no water.

[phatchef]

This is the web site (www.interiorchannelgroup.com)If you get it in your entire basement it's got a lifetime warranty! There could be a simmilar company neer you.

[IB Slammin]

Google and find a Basement Systems dealer/installer in your area. Ask about a WATERGUARD and SANIDRY air system. Have them install it. Don't spend another dime on by guess and by gosh methods.

Very cost effective and a done deal. A dry basement with great RH.

tc

[JJkizak]

It's time to try a "water psychic" to find the entry point. Do the drain pipes have holes in them? Are the holes plugged? Are the pipes large enough? Do the rain gutters tap into them? Do you have rain gutters? Is your basement bult upon a spring? Are your walls block or poured concrete? If your house location is carved out of a hill did you create a large drainge ditch prrallel to the house to drain the water from the hill before it gets to the house? I can't think of any more stupid questions to ask.

JJK

[ace168516]

It's time to try a "water psychic" to find the entry point.

Sounds like a plan.

Do the
drain pipes have holes in them?

Yes

Are the holes plugged?

No

Are the pipes
large enough?

Yes

Do the rain gutters tap into them?

No

Do you have rain
gutters?

Yes

Is your basement bult upon a spring?

No

Are your walls block or
poured concrete?

Block

If your house location is carved out of a hill did you
create a large drainge ditch prrallel to the house to drain the water
from the hill before it gets to the house?

Not applicable

I can't think of any more
stupid questions to ask.

That's
fine with me, I was going to put carpet in my basement and refinance my
house so I can afford food and health insurance for my family since I
am losing my job in two weeks, but I appreciate the sarcastic stupid
questions...they are really sitting well with me as my life is falling
apart, Thanks!

[JL Sargent]

When your basement floor was poured they may have first put down some heavy plastic sheeting. This will act as a barrier against the water but only to the edge of the plastic. I suspect the water you may be getting there is from under the slab.

You could measure the levelness of your concrete floor. Is that the lowest place on the slab?

You could cut a hole in the floor to check for water under the slab.

As you mentioned water will take the path of least resistance but that path could be from anywhere around or under that room. Sounds like that wall you reworked is dry, look elsewhere.

Make darn sure that all storm water flows away from the house. You also might also consider gutter extensions to further carry away water.

[seti]

Google and find a Basement Systems dealer/installer in your area. Ask about a WATERGUARD and SANIDRY air system. Have them install it. Don't spend another dime on by guess and by gosh methods.

Very cost effective and a done deal. A dry basement with great RH.

tc

I'd listen to IB Slammin. He is a foundation specialist.

[greg928gts]

Early on in my business dealings, I was laughed at and ridiculed for suggesting that my customers NOT build their house underground. I suggested building above ground on a monolithic insulated slab foundation, and I've built over 75 homes on this type of foundation here in Maine over the last 20 years. I hardly ever get laughed at these days, I guess attitudes have changed.

I feel bad for people dealing with leaky basements, water is a very tricky thing to figure out.

Greg

[LarryC]

My experience is made up of all of one event. I'd never had water in the basement until after a record heavy rain for several days. My handyman discovered a birds nest had blocked a gutter and poured backed-up water onto the ground right outside where the water leaked in.

The handyman dug out the foundation and discovered that it was cracked. The foundation was made up of hollow cinder blocks, and I was told that if water leaks through the crack, it also fills the hollow spaces and those need to be filled as well as the crack. Otherwise, leaks might continue. So, he filled the holes and the crack. No more water so far, but then it only leaked this time after the heaviest rain in over 20 years.

[JL Sargent]

A properly designed and installed basement usually does not leak. I have a 1600 sq ft basement. Most of it is 7+ft deep too. At 15yrs old we have not had one leak. It cost $10.00 a sq. ft. to build. It has surely been money well spent.

Another good reason to have a basement is to get your feet off concrete in the living area of your house! I guess that's why there are different options for folks. We all like different things. I would rather have Ace's leak with T&G over joists to walk on than a dry concrete slab under foot.

[IB Slammin]

Early on in my business dealings, I was laughed at and ridiculed for suggesting that my customers NOT build their house underground. I suggested building above ground on a monolithic insulated slab foundation, and I've built over 75 homes on this type of foundation here in Maine over the last 20 years. I hardly ever get laughed at these days, I guess attitudes have changed.

I feel bad for people dealing with leaky basements, water is a very tricky thing to figure out.

Greg

Greg,

I mostly agree, but there is nothing wrong with sub-grade building.....when properly constructed. Foundation design and construction is area dependent, and what is successful in one area might not a good approach in other locations. I must assume that Main is founded on the typical "east cost" strata, being shallow and stable. Monolithic foundation construction, even in sub-grade structures is easy and fast resulting in a cost effective build. Now move that build to an area with seasonal shrink/swell movement and expansive soils, where deep foundations are required(Drilled Caissons, Steel Helical Piers, or EBO Micro Pile drilling) Monolithic footing/slab construction becomes more complex, labor intensive, less stable, and less cost effective. It all depends on where you build. Agree?

But back to basement moisture problems and remediation. 99% of all basement leaks come from hydrostatic pressure build up at the bottom of wall/top of footing joint. When the pressure builds to a certain point, it seeps through. An example might be: "We had a 6" rain last week and no leak, but today, we had 1/2" and were flooded."

There are two ways to remedy the problem. The tried and true, old school procedure of excavation, membrane application to the wall and new drainage tile. OSHA regs require that for every 4' down you must be 4' wide. So for an 8' basement, you excavate the Grand Canyon around the building. Porch, landscaping, parking, decks, and walks all disrupted and to be replaced.

All said, check out the WATERGUARD system. I have specified it for hundreds of public buildings, homes, and for new construction projects, all without a single failure.

tc

[jacksonbart]

Given the extensive remedies, sounds like a spring, as in a high pressure under water source. You would be better building a 3rd story.

[ace168516]

Ok, more pictures...these are from before repairs and various stages of repair, so maybe someone can sleuth some answers out that is more knowledgeable than me...basically being able to decide if it is coming from the ground or still "could" be coming down from the top would be a huge deduction...I think greg's hydrostatic pressure theory sound right to me, but I have been wrong many times.