pandaboy Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 In a battle of clarity, bass depth, sensitivity, and what ever else. What do you think would win between the frankenstein and the king of klipsch? I ask because I am either going to get a klipschorn or make a cornscala. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 The "Emperor" will win that contest. C'scala's are good... but just not quite that good. (IMHO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Hi Groom.... And I have to agree with you. K'Horns make the most of 8 FEET don't you think ???? [] .....Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 The KHorn will reign supreme in the proper environment, however Corscala's works well just about anywhere. Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 The KHorn will reign supreme in the proper environment, however Corscala's works well just about anywhere. Dave. I agree, the Cornscala will give you flexibility. But the Khorn bass is far superior IMO. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIGARBUM Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 They are both great speakers, one is not better than the other, they are just different. cb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 They are both great speakers, one is not better than the other, they are just different. cb Quite wrong Sir. Yes, they are both great speakers. Yes they are both different. And, It does, depend on what you consider "better", however it is a fact that the Khorn has much lower distortion in the bass range (thats nearly half of the audible musical frequency range). Its the nature of the beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Hello there Artto... Is your avatar YOUR ROOM??? If so, WOW, would you send that photo so I could get a closer look? Has to be the most luxurious space a pair of K'Horns could ever want [] I'll send mine over, a bit smaller but dedicated to that vintage gear only.. ..........Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhendrix Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Quite wrong Sir. Yes, they are both great speakers. Yes they are both different. And, It does, depend on what you consider "better", however it is a fact that the Khorn has much lower distortion in the bass range (thats nearly half of the audible musical frequency range). Its the nature of the beast. Artto is quite right. The K-Horn has much lower distortion. That said, I will submit that the Klipschhorn Jubilee is now the king of the Klipsch. The Jubilee has approximately 1/10th the distortion (if memory serves correctly) of the original K-Horn. I humbly offer this opinion based on my experience with ownership of multiple pairs of K-Horns, Cornwalls, etc. and now Jubilees, spanning the years beginning in 1970 with my first pair of decorator Cornwalls. Nothing comes close to the Jubilee, including the K-Horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Hello there Artto... Is your avatar YOUR ROOM??? ..........Gary Yes Gary, that's my room. Here's the link for more info: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/19799.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Quite wrong Sir. Yes, they are both great speakers. Yes they are both different. And, It does, depend on what you consider "better", however it is a fact that the Khorn has much lower distortion in the bass range (thats nearly half of the audible musical frequency range). Its the nature of the beast. Artto is quite right. The K-Horn has much lower distortion. That said, I will submit that the Klipschhorn Jubilee is now the king of the Klipsch. The Jubilee has approximately 1/10th the distortion (if memory serves correctly) of the original K-Horn. I humbly offer this opinion based on my experience with ownership of multiple pairs of K-Horns, Cornwalls, etc. and now Jubilees, spanning the years beginning in 1970 with my first pair of decorator Cornwalls. Nothing comes close to the Jubilee, including the K-Horn. Umm....not quite Bill. Not 1/10 the distortion. In fact, at some frequencies, like 250Hz -400Hz the Jubilee actually has higher second and third harmonic distortion than a Klipschorn. At other frequencies the Jubilee is slightly lower. There's an AES white paper by Roy floating around here somewhere that explains it all. BTW, I finally had a chance to audition some domesticated Jubilees (2-way version) at fyrpower (Steve)'s place here in the Chicago area. I honestly didn't find the bass to be any better (although surprisingly good considering the room/conditions - sorry Steve, most of you guys know where I'm coming from) which tells me that the room is still a substantial influence on performance. The 402 on the other hand ~ definitely an improvement, mainly more coherent IMO. I'm looking into integrating the 402 with my Khorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Rigma did that with his Khorns (K402 on top). As I recall, I think he said it sounded quite nice. Looked a bit weird but hey... who am I to judge asthetics? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Found it. I thought I had this pic at work. It's actually at home. This is Rigma's experiment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Thanks Artto ! Checked out those photos. Its seems the K'Horns were changed out at some point? Ok then, here is a shot of mine with the rebuilt Dynaco MKlll's featured on their own stands. I feel that vintage 'jewlery' should be out in the open, and the glow of the Gold Lions after dark.........well, you get the idea [] Here you go.............. ..........Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winchester21 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 I have heard both- driven through VRDs - IMHO the K horn wins hands down. K horns are hard to beat until you get reallly crazy with Jubs and other concoctions. Just my 2 cents worth on a highly subjective subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khorn#1 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Artto, I will admit that you have as much knowledge and understanding of Klipschorns and how to set up the room they are to perform in than anybody I have come across on this forum but, I can give you, I think, some great sound advice on the upper horns. I have 2004 khorns, bought them brand new from a dealer, should have bought used ones because I have upgraded every component except the bass driver ( k33 ). It was nice to get brand new in the box and help keep the Heritage line going, anyway, I have Alk es crossovers, completely inclosed the backs, reinforced the corners they are in, went from the k-401 horn to Alk Trachorns which was an improvement with the k55 mid driver used with the trachorns also. Went with Bob Crites tweeters which was also an improvement. Sound treatments throughout the room which also was an improvement In saying all of the above, I will say this, the best sound improvement I made to my khorn setup was buying and installing Greg Roberts vtrac horn with the BMS 4592 mid driver. Alk es networks are a close second on my upgrade list but, I have heard vtrac's with alk universals and it sound very good also. The es networks offer more control at higher volumns but I could live with the universal networks. I could not live without the vtrac BMS setup. To me its that good and others on this forum will agree that have them or have tried Greg's vtrac demo in their home. I have never heard the 402 so I cant make any comments on that setup but, according to others on this forum, they perform wonderfully. I think Greg is still offering the in home vtrac demo, I think it would be worth your time to hear these. Just my two cents. Regards, Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Quite wrong Sir. Yes, they are both great speakers. Yes they are both different. And, It does, depend on what you consider "better", however it is a fact that the Khorn has much lower distortion in the bass range (thats nearly half of the audible musical frequency range). Its the nature of the beast. Artto is quite right. The K-Horn has much lower distortion. That said, I will submit that the Klipschhorn Jubilee is now the king of the Klipsch. The Jubilee has approximately 1/10th the distortion (if memory serves correctly) of the original K-Horn. I humbly offer this opinion based on my experience with ownership of multiple pairs of K-Horns, Cornwalls, etc. and now Jubilees, spanning the years beginning in 1970 with my first pair of decorator Cornwalls. Nothing comes close to the Jubilee, including the K-Horn. Umm....not quite Bill. Not 1/10 the distortion. In fact, at some frequencies, like 250Hz -400Hz the Jubilee actually has higher second and third harmonic distortion than a Klipschorn. At other frequencies the Jubilee is slightly lower. There's an AES white paper by Roy floating around here somewhere that explains it all. BTW, I finally had a chance to audition some domesticated Jubilees (2-way version) at fyrpower (Steve)'s place here in the Chicago area. I honestly didn't find the bass to be any better (although surprisingly good considering the room/conditions - sorry Steve, most of you guys know where I'm coming from) which tells me that the room is still a substantial influence on performance. The 402 on the other hand ~ definitely an improvement, mainly more coherent IMO. I'm looking into integrating the 402 with my Khorns. Artto, I agree with you to an extent. People can and will put K-Horns where ever they need too, but if one hasn't ever heard them at least 20 feet apart, in a propper room, they have never really experienced what they are capable. My brother in laws are 24 feet frm corner to corner and the room is over 30 foot long. You get back about 15 feet from the front wall, dead center and it is a whole new ball game from a small room. From your avitar, it is self evident that you know exactly what I mean. Knowing this, it would be uterly stupid to think that any speaker is not going to be greatly affected by such things. I love the crispness of the 402, yet especially like how non fatiquing it is to listen to at high spl over long periods of time. An hour or two at max dB levels with the Corner Horn is alot more fatigueing then the 402, but the Jubilee Bass bin in the propper acoustics has trump all over the Klipsc Horn or the TSCMs, and TSCMs have more Bass then the Corner Horn does. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Roger, what’syour definition of “more bass”? When I look atthe one-eight space free field frequency response curves of the Jubilee vs.Khorn (JAES Oct 2000) I see about 5dB more output from the Khorn at 20Hz. At30Hz the Khorn is still ahead by 3dB. At 40Hz the Khorn is still +3dB better.50Hz-120Hz the Jubilee has about 3dB more output. Approaching 200Hz they bothget a little rough. At 250Hz the Jubilee has a huge drop and is down about 10dBcompared to the Khorn. 300Hz they are the same. At 400Hz the Khorn is about 5dBup on the Jub although a little rough, could be argued the same. And now we’reat crossover frequency. What I do seethat I like better is the Jubilee response is smoother, especially at higher frequencies (much of this abovethe 450Hz to 500Hz crossover region). At the very lowest frequencies the Jub haslower second and third harmonic distortion although the Khorn has lower thirdharmonic distortion at the higher frequencies (third harmonic distortion more irritableIMO). How much any of this is audible under realistic, or even ideal listeningconditions is, for me, arguable, because so far, in the one Jubilee system I’veheard, I haven’t heard any improvement as to the bass response, not even withmy own recording (which is a known value since I was present at the concert,recorded and mastered it, and played on my system many times (this particular recording has plenty of low-end whichincludes tympani and pipe organ). What I did hear was a more coherent andseamless sound from the 402’s. Does that mean that what I heard from thetwo-way Jubilee sounds better than what I hear from my own system? Absolutelynot! It simply means that, for me, Ithink my system, might benefit fromgoing to the 402’s. After conversations with Roy about this it was clear to me that one ofthe main reasons PWK wanted the back to be included in the Jub LF is the samereason I went thru all the trouble I did for a proper seal and rigidity withthe Khorns. And let’s not forget that in my system the Khorns are also massloaded to the earth itself, literally lag bolted to the house foundation. If atsome point I find that the Jubilee bass unit will provide better audible performance,then by all means, I’ll make the change. For now, first things first, one at atime, so I know what produced what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 in my system the Khorns are also mass loaded to the earth itself, literally lag bolted to the house foundation Now that is delightfully insane!!! I love it [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 in my system the Khorns are also mass loaded to the earth itself, literally lag bolted to the house foundation Now that is delightfully insane!!! I love it [] I love it too. But my neighbor doesn't. They can't hear it per se'. But they apparently can feel it. Things on the tables and in cabinets vibrate. Needless to say we don't get along all that well. [8o|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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