Al Klappenberger Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Thanks to a forum member who has trusted me with the loan of a K-69 driver I will be doing some testing. Here's the on axis sensitivity plot. It looks to be a very good mid-range driver for the Khorn as it goes nicely down to 400 Hz and well above 6000 Hz. I expect to do inter-mod distortion tests, probably tomorrow. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 7, 2010 Author Share Posted April 7, 2010 This is what we are look at. BTW: I was surprised to learn that this driver is probably NOT made in the USA. The 4 mounting bolts are metric (6mm). Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Thanks Al. It is always good to have your data and insights. Wm McD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 BTW: I was surprised to learn that this driver is probably NOT made in the USA. The 4 mounting bolts are metric (6mm). They are PAudio BMD750 drivers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 7, 2010 Author Share Posted April 7, 2010 Marvel, " They are PAudio BMD750 drivers..." I didn't know that! Looking around for the P Audio version tells me that they are available at rather reasonable prices. The data I see on them says they are not really intended to go below 500 Hz. I plan to test the inter-mod with tones of 450 and 4400 Hz to compare them directly with the B&C DCM50 for use in the Khorn. This should be interesting. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 BTW: I was surprised to learn that this driver is probably NOT made in the USA. The 4 mounting bolts are metric (6mm). They are PAudio BMD750 drivers... Nice pick up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deafbykhorns Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 They (P Audio) may have been slightly modified to Klipsch specifications? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 They (P Audio) may have been slightly modified to Klipsch specifications? Possible, but I don't think they did. I noticed on the PAudio web site that they only show a BMD-II, series, which looks different. THey still OEM probucts, so the original may still be available for buyers like Klipsch. I am speculating... I don't know. I see that USSpeaker has upped the price to $229 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Are the guys using the K69 on the Jubilee in a two way setup EQ'ing the K69 from 6kHz on up? Or, does the horn make that much of a difference on the Jubilee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 8, 2010 Author Share Posted April 8, 2010 Here's the spec sheet on the series II. It looks a bit different. Al K. BM-D750.pdf BM-D750.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Yes, and yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 8, 2010 Author Share Posted April 8, 2010 I just did the IM distortion tests on the K69. The paste-up below is a comparison of the K-69 and the B&C DCM50 drivers. The plots look slightly different because the B&C test was done in my listening room using a hard-copy plotter. The K-69 plots were done in my office where I can download the plots directly to a computer. This means that the B&C plots were a scan but the K-69 plots were fully digital. Both plots were done with a B&K 4133 mike at 1 meter from the driver (not the horn mouth). The tones are 450 Hz at 105 dB SPL and 4400 Hz at 100 dB SPL. It looks to me like the B&C is a bit cleaner. The difference is very acceptable considering the K-69 costs so much less. I think the "grass" that shows up deep down on the K-69 plot is the fan noise from the analyzer. It was located closer to the mike during the office setup tests than where it was in the listening room. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 The K69 / P Audio..Is the same driver. A certin Chief speaker deaigner at klipsch reccomended for the Jubilee.. It needed a heck of alot of EQ To extend its bandwidth...I wouldnt recommend it for a dog whistle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 8, 2010 Author Share Posted April 8, 2010 ".I wouldnt recommend it for a dog whistle." I definitely doesn't go high enough for a dog whistle! I couldn't be used with a 2-way passive equalizer either. If you look where the response drops to 100 dB SPL, which is the upper limit of equalization for a Khorn, it only would extend to about 9 KHz. You absolutely must go active or start cutting the woofer down! I would only use it for a squawker in a 3-way system. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 The K69 spec sheet claims it's good to 19KHz. I don't have the test equipment to verify that, but when I punched in Roy's 18KHz boost to the Dx38, I could hear the difference right away, with the K510 horn, and it was an improvement over the earlier setting, so there's definitely some sound being produced up there. As you say, Al, the K69 really does need an active crossover to sound its best. Of course, I haven't heard the effect of the $3000 passives that one forum member is using with his Jubilees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 8, 2010 Author Share Posted April 8, 2010 " I haven't heard the effect of the $3000 passives that one forum member is using with his Jubilees." No passive network is going to be any good with this driver on any speaker higher then 90 dB sensitivity. If it's the design I am thinking of, it's TERRIBLE! I may have it here in a computer analysis file. I'll look.Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 What I'm reading here doesn't seem congruous with what my ears hear. Al: "I couldn't be used with a 2-way passive equalizer either" I've heard it used in that capacity and it sounded (to my ears) identical to what it sounded like when used with the active. (this was Rigma's $3K passives). I personally, couldn't tell them apart however, he said he could tell a difference in something or another (I forget what he said other than he could tell an improvement with the passive). I only heard them for 20 minutes compared to his 6 months of living with them so I have to defer to his comments but I'd still like to think on a side by side, you could tell if something was significantly different. I don't understand something here.... if this is the dedicated tweeter driver for the 3-way Jubilee (and perhaps some other variations?) then why would it not work in the situation you are testing it for? Let's remember, this IS a driver that is being used for tweeter duty. I don't get how it can be so terrible when being considered for use in a Khorn format (I believe you are looking at this for use with the Khorn, pardon my error if I'm wrong) ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 The owner of those passives is a knowledgeable and well-liked guy and the crossovers sound very good to him, and to others who have heard them. I don't think anything would be gained by saying they're terrible, whether or not you have the file to show it. I had no intention of stirring up any putdowns and I hope you don't either, Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 " I haven't heard the effect of the $3000 passives that one forum member is using with his Jubilees." No passive network is going to be any good with this driver on any speaker higher then 90 dB sensitivity. If it's the design I am thinking of, it's TERRIBLE! I may have it here in a computer analysis file. I'll look.Al K. Better not to go there, there's no point in it -- really. It's a better thread if you just work with the driver and report the performance on your horn. What that driver does on the K-402 with or without passives is irrelevant as it pertains to this thread. Besides, that information has been discussed ad nauseam in the past, and is in the archives for those willing to use the search engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 No passive network is going to be any good with this driver on any speaker higher then 90 dB sensitivity. If it's the design I am thinking of, it's TERRIBLE! "Me thinks he has an axe to grind," BTW: I would think that kind of advertising is best done on one's own website. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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