Do you allow your AVR to tune your speakers flat ? Or do you prefer to hear your speakers "personality" ?

[JCole]

I have a pioneer receiver and up until now, I've let it auto equalize each channel to allow for a flat frequency response. While this seems like a good idea, and allows accurate sound reproduction, isn't this defeating the purpose of quality speakers versus something like a htib setup ?

I cut the speakers off at 80hz and let the sub take over, and have the speakers tuned flat, wouldn't a cheap set of junk speakers end up sounding the same ? Obviously they would clip before the nicer speakers when pushed, but is auto calibration taking away from what my speakers are capable of ?

[Chris A]

A few things to consider about automatic room EQ:

1) Your comment on speakers "clipping" (amplifiers usually are the ones doing the clipping) is another way of saying that some speakers are less sensitive than others. Klipsch makes high-sensitivity speakers for a reason and it has to do with low-distortion output and the ability to easily drive the speakers without huge amounts of amplifier power (large amounts of amplifier power heats the driver voice coils and causes it's sound output properties to start changing--in a bad way).

2) The "automatic EQ" setups require you to use multiple microphone positions in order to minimize the effects of room acoustics reflections. However, in the frequency region from about 100 Hz-400 Hz, even the automatic functions in your AVP/AVR or Audyssey unit cannot fully correct for these reflections. That is why Klipsch maintains an anechoic chamber to test its speakers. Above about 100 Hz, you really need an anechoic chamber, or a really quiet day outside in an open field with acoustic test gear. I wouldn't use the automatic EQ function in-room above about 100 Hz(...!...).

3) "Flat response" setups in-room always sound awful: you need rising response on the lf end of the spectrum (20-100 Hz)--by as much as 6-10 dB(SPL) at 20 Hz to sound "good". This human hearing property is usually very surprising for most automatic EQ users.

Chris [8-|]

[StephenM]

wouldn't a cheap set of junk speakers end up sounding the same ?

Not at all. Frequency response is only one aspect of the sound you hear. Things like dynamic range, distortion, and dispersion are every bit as important.

is auto calibration taking away from what my speakers are capable of ?

Auto-calibration is generally made to compensate for any major response aberrations the room might present. It won't make a bad speaker great nor will it make a great speaker bad. Realistically speaking, if you think it improves the sound, keep in; otherwise, ditch it.

[CECAA850]

Auto calibration and Room Correction software are two different things. Auto calibration checks relative volume of each speaker at the listening position to be sure all speakers output the same. Room correction software works in the time and frequency domains ans lessens the effect of room/wall reflections nulls and peaks. As far as I'm concerned, once I used Room Correction software, I'll never go back. Room correction software takes the room out of the equasion so you actually CAN hear your speakers "personality".

[Chris A]

As far as I'm concerned, once I used Room Correction software, I'll never go back. Room correction software takes the room out of the equasion so you actually CAN hear your speakers "personality".

Maybe, but Audyssey in my room doesn't work very well at all (see profile). I only use the distance (delay) correction and overall level settings - anything else in terms of EQ, I use REW and a DEQ2496 to take long time-span (ergodic) measurements and then pass the results EQ to the active crossover and AVP (subwoofer).

[CECAA850]

As far as I'm concerned, once I used Room Correction software, I'll never go back. Room correction software takes the room out of the equasion so you actually CAN hear your speakers "personality".

Maybe, but Audyssey in my room doesn't work very well at all (see profile). I only use the distance (delay) correction and overall level settings - anything else in terms of EQ, I use REW and a DEQ2496 to take long time-span (ergodic) measurements and then pass the results EQ to the active crossover and AVP (subwoofer).

I don't have Audyssey per se. I have ARC (Anthem Room Correction). I'm not sure what the differences are but in my room, it made a very noticeable improvement. I can't speak for Audyssey.

[JCole]

Some of the responses are a bit over my head, however, I'd like to pose another question:

If you had a set of Khorns or lascalas or something set up in your room as theatre speakers, would you still use auto EQ ? I'm not talking about delay etc but would you allow your AVR to adjust the frequency curves for those speakers ? Would such adjustments nullify why people love heritage speakers so much ?

[CECAA850]

Room correction should have nothing to do with the Heritage "sound". It's sole purpose is to eliminate any negative effects the room has on the sound when it gets to your ears. Put a speaker in one room and the bass can cound muddy or bloated. Take the same speaker and electronics and put it in another room and it can sound shrill or harsh. Room correction software tries to eliminate those issues. It isn't a substitute for proper room treatments, but when used with room treatments will give your ears a more accurate sense of what is coming from the speakers themselves.

[Chris A]

I don't have Audyssey per se. I have ARC (Anthem Room Correction). I'm not sure what the differences are but in my room, it made a very noticeable improvement. I can't speak for Audyssey.

Apparently, Audyssey doesn't work very well in relatively live rooms (like mine) but works much better when the room has sound absorption panels and heavy wall-to-wall carpeting. For instance, Rudy81 really likes his Audyssey in his HT, but in my room, it ends up an awful mess in terms of EQ. Hence the use of the Behringer DEQ2496 EQ unit (that does continuous pink noise sampling and on-the-fly corrections as long as you let it go) and Room EQ Wizard (REW) to check the results. My problem with my Audyssey function in my AVP is that you can't see the final EQ that it is doing. I deep-six the Audyssey EQ settings every time that I run it to readjust the gains for each channel and the delays.

Chris

[Chris A]

Would such adjustments nullify why people love heritage speakers so much ?

Well, there is a bit of truth to this comment, I believe. If you look at the in-room lf response of the Khorn in the room's corners, you will find some characteristic lf peaks around about 100 Hz that many people don't like to EQ out because it makes the Khorns sound too "neutral". However, I've found that EQing the peaks out and having a rising lf response from about 100 Hz on down to (in my room and setup) 20 Hz, the sound was outstanding for virtually all recordings, but different. I'd describe it as "opening a window" to a more realistic overall sound.

Chris

[psg]

Using the room EQ on my hk avr-254 seems to kill all my dynamics, and I have no way of knowing what it's doing. So I don't use it. But I do plan on purchasing a Behringer FDP 1124p and using REW to dial it in to EQ the sub. Using REW will then let me see what the hk EQ is doing.

[CECAA850]

Apparently, Audyssey doesn't work very well in relatively live rooms (like mine) but works much better when the room has sound absorption panels and heavy wall-to-wall carpeting.

Makes sense. Room correction will never take the place of room treatments, but when used with room treatments works very very well. I also have wall to wall carpeting, bass traps and absorptive panels.

[Fish]

I always adjust to my taste, nothing scientific.I eq every channeI to my taste. do get many compliments from people with a very similar set up on my sound.They generally say you have a really good room, I m happy.[]

[jjennings2510]

Apparently, Audyssey doesn't work very well in relatively live rooms (like mine) but works much better when the room has sound absorption panels and heavy wall-to-wall carpeting.

Makes sense. Room correction will never take the place of room treatments, but when used with room treatments works very very well. I also have wall to wall carpeting, bass traps and absorptive panels.

That makes sense. Every room I've used Audyssey in had wall to wall carpeting in it and I loved the results. The only problem was the sub was always set to -12db so I always have to adjust the sub. The rooms didn't have any sound panels though because I really don't know anything about them. But now that I'm thinking about it every room has been like that except one. When I setup my parents den that room has hardwood floors and no sound panels but Audyssey still did a good job.....once again the only issue was the sub being turned all the way down. I guess even though the room had hardwood floors it still has a lot of furniture in it including a piano so does that cut down on the liveliness of the room? Nonetheless I agree with the other posters tho. I don't think these systems will make your expensive speakers sound cheap and vice versa. It's always made my systems sound better but not to the extent of say a sony speaker sounding like a Klipsch Reference speaker lol.

[carbon summit]

I don't have an answer, but I think know what the OP is saying. I've often wondered the same thing. If the auto set up (YPAO in my case) works why do I need to worry about what speakers I'm using, in the end it should correct any flaws so all speakers sound the same.

I'm sure it doesn't work out that way but in theory if there is a "right way" music should sound and the auto set up does it job in the end all speakers should sound the same in any room, right?

[carbon summit]

I don't have an answer, but I think know what the OP is saying. I've often wondered the same thing. If the auto set up (YPAO in my case) works why do I need to worry about what speakers I'm using, in the end it should correct any flaws so all speakers sound the same.

I'm sure it doesn't work out that way but in theory if there is a "right way" music should sound and the auto set up does it job in the end all speakers should sound the same in any room, right?

This train of thought actually left the station when I got the crossovers done in my Forte IIs/Academy. If the YPAO is doing its job do I really need to do anything with the crossovers? Any flaw in the sound of the speakers should be corrected by YPAO and old caps or new in the end it should sound the same after the set up is complete.

[CECAA850]

AFAIK, room correction is meant to take the room out of the equation, not change their sound. Let's say you listen to your speakers outside, with no room interaction. Theoreticaly you can hear the differences in your old and new crossovers. That's the same change you should hear in your room if your room correction is working properly. You are supposed to hear what the speaker actually emits as opposed to hearing the speaker and it's reflective sounds. It won't make a defective speaker sound good. It will let you hear the defective speaker without room interactions.

[t-man]

I sort of disagree with this. Yes, in theory it is supposed to counteract negative room response, but the way it does that is to EQ your speaker's output. If it automatically hung drapes and relocated your couch and such that would be one thing. It does change your speaker response, so yes, it changes your speaker sound from what it is designed to do from the factory to accomplish as flat as possible sound in a given room. It doesn't change the room. I would think that if you carefully calibrated your receiver with Audyssey and then did something like a crossover or diaphram upgrade you would certainly have to run Audyssey AGAIN as the speaker response changed, and then Audyssey will try and get it to sound the same as it did before by EQing the output (so what's the point of the upgrade is the thought of a few inquisitive posters I sense here as well as me).

Do I use Audyssey? Yes. I like it for HT OK, but it does restrict alot of my bass. For music I find that it heavily suppresses the upper frequency range of my KG 5.5s and diminishes the bass response as well. I guess it really "compresses" things. It is much easier to listen to, but the dynamic range is gone. I find that each CD I own sounds differently - some really respond well to the Audyssey curve, and some do not.

[Chris A]

The Audyssey in my AVP uses 5 10 swept-sine "chirps" for each speaker in each microphone position. The results of the EQ that it computes are not available for me to see and to modify - and that is not a good thing, IMHO.

I've found that using different techniques--pink-noise RTA with an EQ unit, Room EQ Wizard [REW], and active crossover EQ functions--are great tools that work. The Audyssey function in my AVP is only good for setting delays and setting relative channel gains in my 5.1--the result of which I can see and modify to my needs.

Chris

[CECAA850]

I sort of disagree with this. Yes, in theory it is supposed to counteract negative room response, but the way it does that is to EQ your speaker's output. If it automatically hung drapes and relocated your couch and such that would be one thing. It does change your speaker response, so yes, it changes your speaker sound from what it is designed to do from the factory to accomplish as flat as possible sound in a given room. It doesn't change the room. I would think that if you carefully calibrated your receiver with Audyssey and then did something like a crossover or diaphram upgrade you would certainly have to run Audyssey AGAIN as the speaker response changed, and then Audyssey will try and get it to sound the same as it did before by EQing the output (so what's the point of the upgrade is the thought of a few inquisitive posters I sense here as well as me).

I sort of agree with this BUT.. You have to remember that Audyssey doesen't just change the frequency response, it works in the time domain also. Upgrading your crossovers will alter frequency responses but does nothing in the time realm. As far as re running Audyssey after a crossover upgrade, I agree whole heartedly and re-ran mine after my crossover bump from DeanG. You should re-measure anytime you change anything, be it speakers, crossovers, drivers, move or add furniture, hang drapes etc.