K'horn Xover Price/Performance

[Mallette]

What's the opinions on the price/performance leader for K'horn crossover repacements?

Dave

[jcmusic]

Dave,

What exactly are you asking?

Jay

[Mallette]

Dave,

What exactly are you asking?

Jay

What's the opinions on the price/performance leader for K'horn crossover repacements? []

Mine are '72 models and it wouldn't hurt to replace the crossover network. I suppose the most cost effective thing would be to simply R&R the components subject to deterioration. However, there are some claims made for third party networks that I'd simply be interesting in hearing about.

Dave

[Guest " "]

A lot of folks like the crossovers provided by third party providers and a very happy with the impeccable customer service they all provide. Forum member preference over network designs and types are all over the place because of the nature of subjective characterization. If money was no object and/or we didn't have to pay for them...it would not be a surprise which crossover domain most folks would be in. However, there is a value to staying with OEM replacements from Klipsch who also provides upgrades to their internal components.

[Mallette]

Well, I might just get'em from Klipsch. PWK knew his business pretty well, and while I am sure there are those who consider aftermarket designs superior in one way or the other, I wouldn' want to void the warranty. []

However, as I mentioned in the original post, I suspect only certain components are subject to deterioration and I might do just as well R&R'ing them.

Dave

[Dennie]

Here is the link to Bob Crites Site.... CLICK HERE Opens in new window.

It is one option. I replaced my stock 1979 Type AA's with Bob's Type A/AA Convirtable Crossovers. I had read that people who run Tubes prefer Type A and people who run SS prefer Type AA. Bob charges $10 to make them "convirtable".

I'm running them as Type AA with SS gear in my La Scalas and they sound great.

Dennie

[LarryC]

Well, I might just get'em from Klipsch. PWK knew his business pretty well, and while I am sure there are those who consider aftermarket designs superior in one way or the other,

I'm an outlier because I prefer the AK-4 xovers I currently have. I had AK-3's before then, but the story is complicated because I also had wierd inserts complicating the blend of my bass horn for many years.

Here's the story on the inserts: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/38731/350047.aspx#350047

The AK-4s made my K's sound and blend better even before the inserts were removed, and they sounded even better afterward. So, I remain a fan of them and won't be changing anything. I tried Crites tweeters and returned them, because they didn't quite blend with the rest of the system, and the AK-4 K-77's sounded a little more like music to me. MHO.

However, the AK-4's were more expensive, because they came as a kit with new K-77's and K-55's. The price for a pair was over $1,200 the last I heard a few years ago.

[jcmusic]

Dave,

My opionion is that the third party xovers are superior to the stock ones, at one time I had Bob C. update my stock AA's. Then I bought a pair of ALK's Universal's, well there is a night and day difference. Having the ability to adjust the mid horn is absolutley the cat's meow!!! I still have them and will probably never change them.

Jay

[SkyDover]

You aren't the only outsider, I have newer Klipschorn's with the AK-4 crossovers and I think they sound very nice, even though Al thinks otherwise. They sound very good.

I also built Super Cornwall from this forum like Catbo's design.

It uses large horn with Atlas driver, Crites woofer, and the Eminence APT-200 tweeter. The Crites Sonicaps crossover's in them are very good, I might add.

Mine were built exactly like Catbo's link here:

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/102542.aspx

I won't change the crossover's in my Klipschorn's because I think they sound nice like they are. They are just as nice sounding as my Super Cornwall's sound wise from the crossovers by Crites. The complete build for my super cornwall's was less than the kit by Klipsch... so yes, the kit is expensive!!

Then again, my Klipschorn's were very expensive!!

Some are using the Selenium D220ti tweeter now that is supposed to be good, I'm thinking I will try those on my HT build I'm starting to build now. I also heard that the Selenium DT150 is very good if you like the phenolic better than the titanium. I might try that one too.

[mikebse2a3]

I've tried AK-2 and AK-3 networks with the K55-M and K77-M drivers and much prefered the AK-3

I tried ALK's universals for about a year with all combinations of K55, K55-M, K77 and K77-M drivers and never was as satisfied as when I used the AK-3 with the K55-M and K77-M (which of course was what it was designed to be used with).

I have a friend who's Khorns(orginal AK-3,K55-M,K77-M) I installed the Klipsch AK-4 upgrade kit in and IMHO it was a real improvement in areas of tonal balance and clarity. I really believe the AK-4/Kit balances and cleans up the area in the midbass(approx. 140hz-400hz range) and this is also what I believe gave the now AK-4/Kit Khorn more punch IMHO and making it sound closer to my Jubilee in this respect.

mike tn

[Mallette]

Much to chew on here, and I appreciate it. My inclination is to "hybrid." That is, try Crites rebuild kit. Unless some knows off the top of thier head (and I am sure someone does) I'll need to get in there and ID the type in my 72s.

I am still happy with the sound, but it just seems like "due diligence" to replace those old parts.

Dave

[LarryC]

Some are using the Selenium D220ti tweeter now that is supposed to be good, I'm thinking I will try those on my HT build I'm starting to build now. I also heard that the Selenium DT150 is very good if you like the phenolic better than the titanium. I might try that one too.

I haven't heard those tweets, but offer a thought or two: I retreated from the Crites' to the K-77's because the character of [edit:] the Crites' highs was more strongly projected than the K-55s' -- they were too clean and too well-defined in comparison.

A hallmark of Klipsch is the seamless sound between the 3 drivers, and I thought the K-77 was better at that. The Crites tweeter had enough more definition that the seams showed IMO.

I didn't expect a tweeter crossed over at 4,500 Hz would affect the definition of bass notes (like string bass pizz), but it did IMO.

This is very subjective, of course, and YMMV. Many have preferred the Crites.

[Mallette]

A hallmark of Klipsch is the seamless sound between the 3 drivers

TRVTH

I've never had a hint of where one ended and the other began. Just music...

Dave

[SkyDover]

LarryC, I like the K-77 tweeter on my Klipschorn. I know some think it can be a bit harsh at times but I think it's pretty good with my setup. I have newer Klipschorn's that have the AK-4 crossovers so maybe I'm not experiencing what others do, and I don't know what an older Klipschorn sounds like, I've only heard the newer version so I have no experience to comment how different it might be in that aspect.

I suppose I could be having a little bit of an opposite of what you get. My APT-200 tweeters (APT-50 driver - same as Crites) seem a bit lower output than my K-77. In my Klipshorn's the K-77 makes itself more known than the APT-200 in my Super Cornwalls. They both use the same Atlas Midrange driver. I would like the APT-200 be up more in output as the K-77. I might get in there and change the tap to a higher output for the APT-200 tweeter and see if I can't get it more like the K-77 in output, will be nice if I can! It still sounds nice though, just sometimes I wish it had more of the higher output of the K-77. I'm thinking that it's something the tap change should fix maybe? Some think the K-77 is hot sounding and maybe it can be at times but I like it, but than again some feel that the RF-7 can be hot sounding and I like how the RF-7's sound. Neither really sound hot to me but I like the presence that both give!

If one likes sound a bit more laid-back, I could understand how that person might perceive it as hot sounding.

[SkyDover]

> I didn't expect a tweeter crossed over at 4,500 Hz
would affect the definition of bass notes (like string bass pizz), but
it did IMO.

I think it crossed over at 4500hz sounds really good to me, but I got used to that with my Klipschorn's first so maybe that influenced me with being used to that sound first. I haven't heard an older Klipschorn crossover at 6000hz so I would be curious to hear it on an older Klipschorn if I would still feel the same.

I did hear it crossover higher on my Super Cornwalls but I liked it better at 4500hz and put it back there, seemed to have more snappy highs and presence to my ears but then again, maybe it was all in my head. I learned sometimes I can fool myself that I think I hear maybe what I want to ear after changing speakers one day and I heard more detail in the other speakers I changed to, then I discovered I didn't change them...was still the same speakers, I had turned the wrong knob! That kind of taught me a lesson!

[SilverSport]

Well, I might just get'em from Klipsch. PWK knew his business pretty well, and while I am sure there are those who consider aftermarket designs superior in one way or the other,

I'm an outlier because I prefer the AK-4 xovers I currently have. I had AK-3's before then, but the story is complicated because I also had wierd inserts complicating the blend of my bass horn for many years.

Here's the story on the inserts: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/38731/350047.aspx#350047

The AK-4s made my K's sound and blend better even before the inserts were removed, and they sounded even better afterward. So, I remain a fan of them and won't be changing anything. I tried Crites tweeters and returned them, because they didn't quite blend with the rest of the system, and the AK-4 K-77's sounded a little more like music to me. MHO.

However, the AK-4's were more expensive, because they came as a kit with new K-77's and K-55's. The price for a pair was over $1,200 the last I heard a few years ago.

My experience as well...converted to the AK-4s but my original crossovers were fried when I got the K'Horns...as were the woofers...

Bill

[mark1101]

In the end it's like tuning an engine. Everything in your system contributes to what you will hear. Take the best crossover for you and put it in someone else's system and it won't be the same. PWK optimized his speakers long ago with certain equipment...........Many people using today's solid state stuff hate Klipsch and say they are harsh sounding.......but can change the crossover to steeper slopes and it gets much better. Someone with low power tubes and extreme slope networks will miss out on dynamics. Everything affects everything and something that is great in one place might be very wrong in another.

The best thing for you to do is probably just recap your existing crossover which should return it to original condition and produce very close to the original factory sound. Your corossovers are old and the caps are surely spent. However, the inductors should be OK. It costs next to nothing to do a basic recap. Then go from there. The aftermarket is fantastic and offers many different directions but it's smart to get a bassline first.

[psg]

What's the opinions on the price/performance leader for K'horn crossover repacements?

Dave

I went from stock, old AA crossovers, to refreshing the caps on them, to switching from K77 to Crites tweeters, to swapping the AA to Crites AS4500 (changing the crossover point from 6000 Hz to 4500 Hz).

The biggest difference I heard was refreshing the caps.

I'm very happy with the system now, but if I had to do it over again right now, I'd likely go active and try to time-align the drivers. It would be easier with two-way than three-way though. I'd use the very affordable miniDSP to start.

[jcmusic]

Dave for sure you are going to get alot of different opinions on this, your ears should be the judge. Also for sure you are losing resistence to heat because of your old caps, you should at the very least replace them if nothing else.

Jay

[Mallette]

Yep, Jay, lots of good input and I am with you. Think I'll buy a Crites kit and R&R the consumables first. If I am happy, then I am good at the lowest cost. If not, I've wasted little and can move up.

Dave